Name of the Game

[Mike Holmes]

Ron,

Well, then maybe we should call the game Genericus. The point being that what we were trying to imply by Universal is solely that it works for any genre of play, genre meaning more or less exactly that aglomeration of things that you are wont to attribute to it. It may be that this Universal connotation of the appellation that may be being interpereted as "Universally caters to all styles", is what is bugging some people about it. We wouldn't want to imply that.

In fact the style of play engendered seems pretty unique from my perspective, sharing some things in common with games like SOAP and Once Upon a Time. But that's just my opinion, which is biased due to my closeness to the project. Actuall play tests may promote another style entirely. We'll see.

So the queston becomes what title more intuitively might get across the idea that the game is generic? I'm startig to think that Paul's idea of just going with something provocative in general might be better, and have less maning in the title. As Pblock said, just let the reader figure it out, as that's more important in the end anyhow. Hmmm..

Infinity, while potentially pompous sounding, does imply the open range of possibilities the game possesses. And it packs some punch. Hasn't that already been done somewhere?

Mike

[Mike Holmes]

I just read your stuff on Universal vs. General, Ron. And I agree with the distinction. And upon recollection, in fact that is what the U in GURPS stands for Universal as in it works for everybody (which obviously it doesn't). It's the G in GURPS that indicates Generic as in omni-genera, which is pretty obvious when you think about it (and where GURPS succeeds occasionally and fails in others).

So that may be where a lot of people are getting their impressions of what Universalis might imply. Hmmm...I wonder if most will make a distinction between Generic and Universal? Is popular sentiment like PBlock's right now? Are such games out of Vogue to the point that indicating either would be a blunder? I'm liking Infinity more and more...

Mike

[Ron Edwards]

Hi Mike,

I'm pretty easy about titles. As I said earlier, "Universalis" doesn't bug me as a title, although the use of "universal" regarding role-playing DOES bug me as a concept (or rather, it's an absurdity). So even given that, I'm STILL all right with the title of the game.

Still, maybe we should all go the videotape in this discussion. Barring obvious titles like "Call of Cthulhu," "Hercules," and "The Dying Earth," which simply mirror their licensing sources, we get the following types.

- codename/acronyms: GURPS, FUDGE.
- imitators of D&D: Tunnels & Trolls, Chivalry & Sorcery, Swords & Spells, Heroes and Heroines, Villains & Vigilantes.
- interwords: DragonQuest, RuneQuest, UnderWorld.
- one-word-wonders: Vampire, Sorcerer, Swashbuckler, Toon, Universe.
- descriptors: Orkworld (which is not an interword), Blue World, Macho Women with Guns, Army Ants.
- evocators: The Whispering Vault, Nobilis, Champions, Hero Wars, Maelstrom, Little Fears, Fading Suns, Unknown Armies.
- provocators: Ninja Burger, Zero, All Flesh Must Be Eaten, Obsidian, Everway.

These categories overlap to a large extent; I think the one-word-wonder is basically an evocator, for instance, just with a very recognizable "ah ha" rather than "what's THAT" as the result. And a provocator is an evocator intended to inspire curiosity.

I'm trying to think about RPG titles that simply don't work for me ... I guess the worst (relative to the game itself) is "Epiphany," which conveys literally nothing about the pulp-fantasy, Hyperborean material of the game, nor does it bring up any interesting thoughts or curiosity on its own.

Best,
Ron

[Mytholder]

Eh. Calling a game Universal or anything like Infinity triggers the nasty little nitpicky part of my brain which says "right. You're universal are you? I want to run a game involving a sentient toadstool in the year 3 billion bc, a artificially intelligent starship the size of a small moon, and God. In a dungeon. In four different parallel universes. And the mechanics have to account for the importance of Tori Amos in all things."

Basically, the more pretentious you sound, the more I want to break you. "Writ Large" sounds ok, though...

[Jeffrey Straszheim]

If you'll accept me as a random consumer sample, and as someone who has never seen your game and knows nothing about it, I really like "Writ Large".  Of all the potential titles mentioned on this site so far, that is the one that makes me say, "Boy, I'd better check that out."

[Mike Holmes]

On 2001-09-25 12:24, Mytholder wrote:

I want to run a game involving a sentient toadstool in the year 3 billion bc, a artificially intelligent starship the size of a small moon, and God. In a dungeon. In four different parallel universes. And the mechanics have to account for the importance of Tori Amos in all things."

Not a problem.

This system will handle it with aplomb. In fact one of the characters in one of the playtests (Greyworm as it happens) was a sentient starship. The Tori Amos factor will, of course, be highly subjective, but then that's how the game handles everything.

For example, I would rate the importance of Tori Amos very highly in just about everything in such a universe as I think that she is very important. You might rate her importance in such things as cheeseburgers very low, but then again we have mechanics for such disputes as well.

All joking aside. You could do it if you really wanted to and do it as well as any other genre.

In one game we played we were all anthropomnorphic creatures that were required to take tragic (yet as it turned out humorous) flaws and were all trapped inside a lab enviroment that simulated a fantasy world, which meant that we all had fantasy powerz as well, and in which we could be stimulated (read shocked) at any time by the researchers who watched us. Needless to say Seth Ben-Ezra was playing.

As far as relatively normal genres I've done everything from sci-fi to western to slasher flick. And the game's only been in existence for a couple of months.

Ask me sometime about the superhero steampunk game.

Mike

[ This Message was edited by: Mike Holmes on 2001-09-25 13:41 ]

[Mike Holmes]

On 2001-09-25 13:09, stimuli wrote:
If you'll accept me as a random consumer sample, and as someone who has never seen your game and knows nothing about it, I really like "Writ Large".  Of all the potential titles mentioned on this site so far, that is the one that makes me say, "Boy, I'd better check that out."

I'm not really sure what it says. Does it refer to anything Paul, or did you just divine that out of thin air?

Maybe the point is just to obfuscate a bit and get people to look and see what the heck.

Thanks for the input,
Mike

[Mike Holmes]

There's a Hyprborean pulp game with the name "Epiphany"? That is sad, unless there is something you missed. Epiphany should be a game that's a combination of Trivial Pursuit and Pictionary or something.

Cool analysis, Ron. I'm starting to feel like using something provocative. Actually, I think that would be the category that Universalis would fall into, but it might evoke some of the wrong things, too. Infinity is apparently provocative, as it got a rise out of Mythie. Perhaps that's a good thing. I would want people to challenge it's dimensions as I think that may be one of its greatest strengths.

Hey, Ralph, when we were brainstorming a long time back, didn't you suggest Infinity as a possibility? I probably dismissed it as too bombastic. Reconsidering now.

Mike

[Jason L Blair]

How about "Ad Nauseam?"


Or, why not "Ad Infinitum?" That way you could have the cool abbreviation "AI." Of course, if you go that route, you could also call it "Haley Joel Osment: The RPG."

Then we could do a cross-over with LF. :wink:



_________________
Jason L Blair
Editor-in-Chief
Key 20 Publishing
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[ This Message was edited by: Key20Jason on 2001-09-25 14:47 ]

[Mike Holmes]

I had just looked up the Latin for Infinity: Infinitum. I like that, Jason. Ad Infinitum, not Ad Nauseum, haha, very funny :wink:

I also did a search for "Writ Large" and apparently this is one of those cases where a person can go through life without bumping into something fairly common. I honestly have never seen the phrase before. Is this one of those obscure phrases that suddenly gains a burst of great popularity after being relatively dormant for a while (I hope so). Anyhow, from context it would appear to mean "presented larger than normal" or something like that. From a litteral meaning of written large? Makes sense. I'm going to take a wild guess and say that it's probably from Shakespeare. Might make a good title as well.

Mike

[Paul Czege]

Does it refer to anything Paul, or did you just divine that out of thin air?

I thought the game needed a name that conveyed a sense of collaborative and contentious epic-scale craftmanship, which from playing it at GenCon was my overriding impression of it. Universalis is too stern for my taste. I like Infinity, because it feels like more of an artistic endeavor than Universalis. But I like Writ Large the best. Disruption of Entropy is perhaps the most high concept of the titles, and I do like it, God and the Author as forces of science and mathematics. I rather thought there'd be a few advocates of Disruption of Entropy. I did not, however, think there'd be any advocates of Aperture Contraction. It's too quirky, and overly focused on the idea of starting with the whole field of view and narrowing the focus of attention.

Paul

[Epoch]

A more concise version of "Disruption of Entropy" might be "Ectropy" (or "Extropy," if you prefer).

I like the term "Ectropy."  It makes me happy.  Ectropy, ectropy, ectropy.

[Mike Holmes]

Hey Paul,

I like your ideas more and more. You've been a very important inspiration in general during this later phase of the game's design. We'll have to consider these each carefully.

The game has tended to play a bit epic, but that seems to be a side effect, and was not a design goal. I'm not sure if we should embrace it and go with the flow or check it to see that something about it isn't prohibiting non-epic play. I think that just the idea that players get at first that they have control of everything and that they have to be considering the big picture is the cause. I'm certain you could get around that by playing in established settings, for example.

Still, I don't mind the game soundig Epic by its name. I think that's probably attractive to lots of players.

Thanks,
Mike

[Mike Holmes]

On 2001-09-25 15:46, Epoch wrote:
A more concise version of "Disruption of Entropy" might be "Ectropy" (or "Extropy," if you prefer).

I like the term "Ectropy."  It makes me happy.  Ectropy, ectropy, ectropy.

Can I guarantee a sale if we name the game Ectropy? :wink:

Might work as one of those provocative "what the heck is that?" names. I think I like Extropy better. Or perhaps the adjective instead, Extropic?

Mike "Mike's of the world Unite! Mike Power!" Holmes

[Epoch]

I think I'm pretty much obliged by the way my brain is hardwired to buy any print RPG that I name, yes.  :razz:

"Extropy" sounds sexier, yes.  Because it's got an X in it.  X's are sexy.  Look, see, I'll even ask the marketting lady.  Yup.  She agrees.  Sexy as hell.

I was going to use "Ectropianism" as the name of a faction in a game that I will doubtless never get around to writing.