T&T knife-twisting

[Jeff Klein]

I was reading Ron's http://www.indie-rpgs.com/articles/22/">Black Fire and came across his note on "Twisting the Knife":

Design notes: I always wanted a mechanic like this in Games like Tunnels & Trolls or Ninja Burger, completely overtly saying, "It's getting worse, you know."

It occurred to me that the corresponding T&T concept was "Dungeon Level", so I dug around for my fourth edition '77 copy.

Aside from the advice on creating the next level ("You will want to make the monsters tougher, the treasure richer, the traps deadlier and more insidious, the jokes and gags funnier"), the same type of monster on a deeper level will have a higher rating - goblins on the first level have 30 points, but the ones you find on the fourth have 75.  There are a few options given for monster combat on lower levels, either they get more dice according to their rating, or their dice get multiplied by the level, or they get +1/4 MR adds per level.  Also, saving rolls get worse by 5 every level. (Note that in this edition saves aren't general-purpose ability vs. difficulty checks yet, it's strictly Luck vs Dungeon Level, it's always asked by the DM, and only "when there is a chance that something bad will happen to you".

All in all, it leaves the option to "turn it up" in the players' hands when they encounter a staircase, unless...

(GM) "The floor collapses, you slide down a chute and onto a hard floor, and take (roll 1 die) 3 points damage."
(Player) "Not too bad, we can heal that..."
(GM) "And there's a big sign that says 'WELCOME TO LEVEL FIVE'."
(Players) "AAAAAHHHH"

[ejh]

Whoa.  Saving rolls were strictly Luck vs Dungeon Level?  In fourth edition?

I'd kill for a photocopy of 4th Ed, cause my curiosity is piqued now.  (I started gaming with 5th Ed T&T, and I think the 5th Ed was fairly new when I got it.)

I got a lot of hints as to what older editions were like from the solo dungeons and such but I never perceived that correlation before.

[Ron Edwards]

Hi there,

Twisting the Knife indeed. I really like the point about how it's usually in the players' hands, but the GM has a fun opportunity to do it as well. I've already spotted the metagame awareness of "dungeon level" as a serious variable in our own T&T game.

I've never read any of the early editions of T&T either, which is a bummer. Let me see if I can exploit my newfound connections with some of the authors to correct that.

Best,
Ron