Feinting

[lemmiwinks]

In the errata it says extra cost for Feint doesn't make sense.  Rapiers supposedly have a cost of 1, and other weapon choices have a VARIABLE.  In the description it sais it has a high activation cost, yet does not list the cost.  In the example Geralt spends 1 dice to activate the thrust, then spends 1cp for every 1 extra die for his attack.  In Geng Ha's manuever listing, he states that you spend 2cp for every 1 extra die for attack.

So not am I only confused about how rapiers have a higher activation cost, because it looks like it uses 1 like everything else, but I don't understand Geng Ha's definition of the manuever or why High Activation cost is listed in the main book.

I'm altogether feint confused, thanks for followups in advance.

Edit: Also wondering if there is any defense against a feint, because it seems like the defender is screwed after trying to parry... so can the defender try to parry the feinted thrust or does he sit back and take a pretty damaging blow?

[Overdrive]

I've understood that feint activation cost is 1, but against the same opponent it raises by 1 with every activation. So when feinting for the second time the cost is 2, then 3 and so on. I guess this is the 'variable' part. Was it that the rapier had activation cost of 2 for game balance issues, because it already has ATN of 5?

To add one die to your attack, you must pay one additional die from your pool. The ratio is then 1 for 2 dice. So a feint which adds 2 dice to your attack, you must pay a total of 5 dice. This is so high a cost that if it fails, _you_ are screwed :)

The defences against a feint are slight overcommitting to all parries, body language skill and.. hmm. It's a powerful maneuver.

[lemmiwinks]

Hmm thanks a lot.  After reading your post I see that my misconception is pretty stupid of me.  Thanks a lot for clearing this up, I see now that the (1) cost for Feint instead of variable just means 1 added onto the pre-existing cost of 1 + # of times you've done it before.  Neat.

[Lance D. Allen]

It seems that you both misunderstand.

The Activation cost for a feint is variable because it costs a different amount depending on the amount of dice added. Basically, if you have a CP of 13, and you attack for 5 (leaving you with 8 CP), then declare a feint after the opponent has declared their defense, you can add up to 4 more dice. The reason for this is because the Activation Cost is 1 per ever die you add, so to add one die, you spend 1 additional die, for 4 dice, you spend 4 additional, for a total of 8. The rapier is described as having a higher cost because it adds an additional 1 CP cost on top of the regular cost. Using the example above, if I attacked with 5, then declared a feint, I would only be able to add 3 dice, because it would cost me 4 (the original cost plus the 1 for rapiers) which adds up to 7.

The reason why this is effective is because you're misdirecting your enemy. If I attack for, say, 4 toward your arm, or toward a heavily armored location, you're not going to be as likely to throw a lot of defense into it. When I feint, I add additional dice (at a high cost) and change the location, so suddenly your defense may not be sufficient, and the location may be much more deadly.

[Overdrive]

Well, at least that's how it is done in the simulator :)

So, 1 for activation, and after that, 2 dice for one die added to the attack. For additional 3 dice to the attack you must pay 1+6 dice. Not sure about the raising activation cost or the rapier part, though.

[Lance D. Allen]

The 1 for activation is only for the rapier styles.

Also, what they say about the cost raising is this; For each attempted feint with the same opponent after the first, add 1 CP to the activation cost. Basically, if you keep feinting, they're going to get wise to your tricks after a while. This addition is for any engagement with that opponent, not just a single engagement.

[MrGeneHa]

In the name of mercy, stop calling me Geng.

Gene Ha

[lemmiwinks]

The combat simulator also has a 1 CP cost at the beginning without the use of a rapier.  I'm using longsword and I still have the 1cp.

[Lance D. Allen]

That, I believe, is incorrect, then.

::goes to his book::

Hmm. It shows no initial activation cost for feint, nor does it mention one in the rules, but it does have one in the given example.

That's odd. Having read both the descriptions for Feint-and-Cut and Feint-and-Slash, it says nothing about an initial CP cost, but it does use one in the example.

::pauses one more moment, and goes to the errata page::

No, no mention of it there.

Well, it looks like you're going to have to make a judgement call. The rules do not state anything about that 1 CP cost, but the example does, which is probably where Brian took the basis for his decision in coding the Combat Simulator.

Your call.

[Mike Holmes]

Jake? Ruling?

Mike

[Jake Norwood]

I think it was in the first printing. I took it out of the second.

Jake

[lemmiwinks]

So what's the final ruling on this?

[Durgil]

I took it out of the second.

Jake

I think that he stated the final ruling.  There is NOW no CP activation cost for the feint manuever, unless you're using a rapier.