Game terminology in PUNK

[Daniel Solis]

(I'm not sure if this is the proper forum to ask this question, it might be more appropriate for RPG Theory. If so, I'll be glad to move it.)

The Mridangam thread made me question to what extreme game terminology can be customized for a setting before it becomes more of a hassle than it's worth. While unique game terms can really help get into the feel of a game, at a certain point I've found many gamers to revert to more familiar jargon, i.e. "Strength," "Con," "Dex," etc.

To bring this issue into focus, I've tried giving the six basic stats in PUNK more "gritty" names than the relatively sterile "standard" terms.

BEEF  Physical strength and toughness. Beef is relevant during physical actions requiring brute force, stamina or endurance. The stat also comes into play when fighting off diseases and poisons or healing injuries.

GREASE  Physical speed, agility and dexterity. Grease is relevant when dodging, fighting, running, handling delicate items, or using sleight-of-hand. In a fight, grease might come into effect when determining how fast you can physically react.

BRAINS  Intellect, memory, willpower and general education. This is relevant in actions requiring you to learn, study, or apply something from your reservoir of knowledge. It also applies to when you're trying to solve out mysteries, puzzles or problems. This also comes into play when your character is attempting to withstand mental strain from torture, brainwashing or, what the hell, psionic attacks.

SKILLZ  Quickness of thought, mental reflexes, sensory acuity. This stat is relevant using your senses, thinking quickly, and keeping your focus in stressful, chaotic situations.

FACE  Appearance, personality and social adeptness. Face is relevant in social situations like intimidation, fast-talking, lying, diplomacy, manipulation or bargaining. It is also relevant in situations requiring expression and empathy. This stat only represents your character's personality insofar is he might use it to do something. Personality is the province of role-playing, not game terms.

JUICE  The intangible traits that don?t fit into the previous stats but which nevertheless afford your character a certain amount of respect, admiration, animosity or fear from her peers. In realistic settings, your character's juice might be vast wealth, being a royal heir, connections to a network of powerful people, or the loyalty of a gang. In more fantastic settings, juice might be superhumanity, access to advanced technology or outright magic.

I was curious whether the Forge-ites think this terminology is placing so much emphasis on style that it's no longer intuitive and functional. More importantly, I was curious if anyone had suggestions for better, more PUNK-ish game terms. (I'm not very enamored with "skillz" or "brains.")

[Thomas Tamblyn]

I agree that skillz seems a weak name - though its interesting how the 'z' changes it from being "Known abilities" to how on the ball you are.  Comes from l33tspeak I'd imagine.  Anyway.

I'd rename Skillz to Wits (quick witted, witty, got their wits about them) - or maybe guile.  More games need a stat named 'guile'.

Juice I like, but Mojo springs to mind as an alternative.

Grease I like.  Full stop.  It's skirting the line of style over functionality, but it's too cool to drop.

Alternatives for brains... Smarts, Noggin', Noodle (thats using your noodle), Savvy, Reason.  The last two don't include the willpower aspect though.  Can't come up with anything spectactular here but Brains sounds fine to me.

Oh, and Face's description should explicitely mention respect since thats the obvious meaning of the word.

[Cemendur]

I was curious whether the Forge-ites think this terminology is placing so much emphasis on style that it's no longer intuitive and functional.)

I suggest using terminology that looks at abilities through the lens of the genre you are representing. If the abilities have a genre-specific metaphors of abilities, then the abilities become more than another word for the standby terminology. The abilities become the metaphor that your character looks at life.

More importantly, I was curious if anyone had suggestions for better, more PUNK-ish game terms. (I'm not very enamored with "skillz" or "brains.")

Raw Power (As in the Iggy Pop Song) Beef excludes the Vegan Punks who are becoming more common these days.
Action Also "Direct Action", "Kung-Fu Fighting",
TFY (Think for Yourself) Alternately, "Free Thought"
DIY (Do It Yourself; This is also a measure of ethics. DIY is the punk rock ethic.)
Punk Points
Voodoo

[Daniel Solis]

I'd rename Skillz to Wits (quick witted, witty, got their wits about them) - or maybe guile.  More games need a stat named 'guile'.

Hmm... Guile seems appropriate.

Oh, and Face's description should explicitely mention respect since thats the obvious meaning of the word.

I meant Face to be the general "social" stat. It can be used in the form of "to save face," but it could just as easily be taken to literally mean appearance. I actually got the idea for this term from the namesake character in the A-Team. I'll be sure to be more clear in the next revision.

Raw Power (As in the Iggy Pop Song) Beef excludes the Vegan Punks who are becoming more common these days.

I'm not so sure about that. I'm a vegetarian and I don't feel particularly slighted by the term. I meant it as in "that sumo wrestler is really 'beefy.'" I didn't really mean to imply actual diet. That having been said, I think "Raw Power" is such a common term that few would notice an Iggy Pop reference.

TFY (Think for Yourself) Alternately, "Free Thought"

I'm intrigued by this suggestion. It would certainly fit the "Willpower" theme.

DIY (Do It Yourself; This is also a measure of ethics. DIY is the punk rock ethic.)
Punk Points

We must be on the same page, I'm actually already using those terms in the game. Good ideas all around.

[kregmosier]

http://www.punkinternational.com/dictionary.html

Please oh please don't use 'Emo' for Willpower...*shudder* hehe

[W. Don]

I was curious whether the Forge-ites think this terminology is placing so much emphasis on style that it's no longer intuitive and functional. More importantly, I was curious if anyone had suggestions for better, more PUNK-ish game terms. (I'm not very enamored with "skillz" or "brains.")

How about "Street" for "Skillz"?

Personally, I think emphasizing a particular game's style is a good thing. Daniel, The terms you're currently using strike me as quite punk and still quicly and intuitively grasped -- as do the ideas from others already posted.

Which leads me to think that a lot of what makes a game successful in this regard is how steeped a particular reader/player is in the "genre" the games is focused on. So perhaps the designer's job here is a matter of focus? If you have very genre-specific (or style-specific) terms you risk alienating many potential players. However, if you stick to it and provide relevant support material (in the form of pictures, notes regarding music and sub-cultrure), I'd imagine you can end up with a game that's so focused on the genre (and one that leads potential players further into it) such that play is emminently enjoyable in the mode or style you've set out to address.

- W.

[Cemendur]

Raw Power If you are doing the WW quote's thing. Iggy could be quoted.

Beef is does not literally mean strength, its a metaphor for strength. Then again so is "raw" (being uncooked meat). This is similar to how many diverse NW Native American groups have salmon as a symbol for vitality or Great Plains natives have Buffalo (American Bison) as a symbol for vitality. My vegan friends do use tofu or soy as a metaphor for strength (one going so far as to have a tattoo of the Chinese word for soy on his chest), while my vegetarian friends usually don't. I can think of an animal sustenance equivelant for punks. Chaos punks (as opposed to Chaos Theory Punks) would use beer and generic cigarettes as a symbol for substinance, while Ciderpunks would use cider (or the apple).  .  . Food Not Bombs is a symbol of sustenance for many squatterpunks. They use the carrot in a fist symbol. Of course they serve vegan soup. Then again, a "beef"  attribute would be better than "soup" attribute. I'll have to ponder punk sustenance more thoroughly. Then again, how much do I really want to meditate on punk sustenance?

P.S. How about a squash attribute? As in "squash the state". Ouch. O.k. O.k. I am not a pun fan. Really.

TFY (Think for Yourself) Alternately, "Free Thought"[/quote]

Excellent.

We must be on the same page, I'm actually already using those terms in the game. Good ideas all around.

I am curious, in what way are you using DIY and Punk Points if not for Skillz and Juice?

[Cemendur]

Except for skillz, the original attibute list looks like a typical meal my great aunt would eat. (Brains being brains of a calf. Face being scrapple)

[Daniel Solis]

We must be on the same page, I'm actually already using those terms in the game. Good ideas all around.

I am curious, in what way are you using DIY and Punk Points if not for Skillz and Juice?

I'm using punk points as the term for "Drama Points." Points spent in or out-of game to achieve various effects. Usually related abilites granted by the nature of the character's Juice. I'm using DIY abilities in the same way as Unknown Armies. (Players make up their own abilities, but there are some suggestions and guidelines in the text.)

[Shreyas Sampat]

Since Mridangam inspired this, I feel I have to at least dip a toe into the discussion.

One thing I firmly believe about game terminology is that it should mean what it appears to mean; I'm very uncomfortable with words that already have meanings being co-opted to serve other purposes.  It's important to think about the way your terminology will affect the interpretation of the game mechanic it represents.

So say you do use the term "punk points".  If I were in your shoes, I would stop and think hard about the usages of punk points, and be sure that they can only be applied to punky things.  Similarly, TFY would only apply in attempts to find a creative solution - non-creative solutions would be assumed within the capabilities of characters, and thus less cool.  I totally support the use of subcultural or obscure terms, too, in their elements (Mridangam is a big, big example of this), but they should, to an informed reader, illuminate rather than obscure.

So, those are my thirty-seven cents.

[rafael]

More importantly, I was curious if anyone had suggestions for better, more PUNK-ish game terms. (I'm not very enamored with "skillz" or "brains.")

Skillz?  As in, to pay the billz?

Well, I spoke with my boy Fifty Cent, who assured me that the proper spelling is "skeelz".  I called Iggy Pop for a second opinion, but he didn't call back...

I'm trying to think of a usage of skillz/skeelz in a punk milieu, and can't come up with one.  Can't think of a punk rock equivalent, either.  Sorry

-- Rafael

[Daniel Solis]

they should, to an informed reader, illuminate rather than obscure.

How "informed" do you think the reader should be to understand the terms? I understand that using non-standard terminology will automatically have a bit of a learning curve but do you think I should include what the terms mean as well as the source of the term?

Originally, I had been calling punk points drama points since they'd be used as a resource pool to fuel various weird, punkish effects appropriate for whichever -punk setting is being played. I called them drama points because at their core, they give the PC a degree of control over the drama.

I made the switch to "punk points" to provide a sharper focus on the fact that these are -punk subgenre settings. Yes, the points are spent in such a way as to alter the course of the drama, but, more importantly, they're used by the punks of the -punk setting.

For example, psipunks spend punk points to do psipunk things. Even if other characters may have psionic powers, they're not psipunks and can't do psipunk things. Now, what exactly psipunks do that define them as psipunks is something I'm still working out right now. :P

I'm trying to think of a usage of skillz/skeelz in a punk milieu, and can't come up with one.  Can't think of a punk rock equivalent, either.

No worries, mate. I actually got it from 1337 h4x0r (elite hacker) lingo. Basically, whenever you can make a quick creative decision with really good results you have "mad skillz" as the kids say.

[Shreyas Sampat]

When I say that, I mean that to a reader familiar with the source material, not the game, the usage of the term in the game should be quite transparent.  I don't believe that you need to include explanations of a term's use in the source in one specific case: that where only insiders are expected to be interested anyway.  This is the case with Mridangam, perhaps not with PUNK's broader appeal.  The learning curve is not a worrying point, IMO; using new terms to outsiders will change the slope less than the bump that misuse of terms will create for insiders.

Your explanation of punk points in psipunk is exactly what I mean by good usage of terminology: they create weird, genre-appropriate punky effects.

[Daniel Solis]

Your explanation of punk points in psipunk is exactly what I mean by good usage of terminology: they create weird, genre-appropriate punky effects.

Thanks! I really do still have to define what psipunks do that separates them from psi non-punks. Maybe punk actions are anything that forcefully rebels against things that just can't, or aren't allowed, to be done. Any act of rebelling against the Man.

That brings up another punk terminology question:

I was considering calling the GM "The Man" as in "the Man's trying to bring us down!" But I was concerned, with perhaps too much political correctness, that it would be an exclusatory term for female GMs. More importantly, I worried it would create too much of a confrontational relationship between the players and the GM. Was I worrying about nothing? Would it be a cool genre-appropriate title?

[Lxndr]

I think "The Man" is dang appropriate.  If you're worried about gender issues, you could always take the issue some other game books have taken, and refer to players as "he" and the gm as "she."

Which could be interesting, saying something like, "After The Man decides on a scenario, she..."