OBAM: First Impressions

[Darth Tang]

Great idea Val!

Let me know when you've got it ready.

[Brian Leybourne]

Hmm. I do see your point(s), but I guess what we have here is a difference of focus. I'm not saying that one party is "more" or "less" right than the other, just that they're looking for different things.

For me (I'm not going to put words in Jake's mouth, but I'm quite confident he feels much the same as I do), TROS is a game about human interaction. It's a game about motivations and actions, and begs the question "What's worth dying for?". The most important factors are a persons drives, passions, destiny, et al. How and when do these mostly come up? Through roleplay and interaction, mostly between characters and NPC's or other characters. This is what TROS is really about, for me anyway.

Do beasties and mythical creatures fit into this? Of course they do, because we're not talking about Earth but instead a fantasy world (gritty fantasy, not D&Desk with hundreds of sentient races that really make no sense) that features them. So, there's definately a place for monsters and things that go bump in the night, because by confronting those fears men can develop and grow (and have something to boast about in the pub). But they're not the main focus of the game as I see it.

Thus, unlike in a game like D&D, fighting a dragon should be an extremely rare and wonderous thing. A once-in-a-campaign kind of thing. And it should be epic. This being the case, do we really need/want to spend several pages in a book having an entire new chart of damage tables because a dragon claw slash would be slightly different from a sword slash? Nope. It's not going to come up often enough to waste time on.

I mean, just how often are you planning to have your characters be swarmed by rats, anyway? So often that you want hard-and-fast rules for it? Stomps or blows from large giants? For me, these are all things that shouldn't come up often enough to have spent valuable time in a book covering, when you might only need the rule once or twice ever while playing TROS (and generally very easy to come up with as you need them - I say a blow from a giant gets distributed randomly like falling damage; a rat swarm leaves level 1-2 piercing wounds in 2d6 random locations, etc). And where do you draw the line anyway? Should I have covered how the damage from flesh eating grubs is computed? How about being crushed by a sentient creeping vine? How about multiple bee stings? Etc.

Now, as I said, I'm not saying that all of this is the only, or even the right way to play TROS. But it is the way I play TROS, and I wrote OBAM, which is why OBAM has the focus it does. :-) I'm really sorry that the book disapoints you. Different focus, as I said. Some folk are complaining that D20 modern doesn't accurately depict gunshot wound trauma, while others are just happy to know how many D8's to roll for pistol damage, for example.

As for Ralph's suggestion, I think it's not a bad one for those who like to play higher fantasy with lots of creatures running around and lots of dragons and manticores to battle on a weekly basis. Hell, I would even be interested to read what someone came up with, even though I don't play TROS that way. I *would* be against putting it in OBAM (my baby and all, although it wouldn't be my decision to make) but it could certainly be something to go up on the webpage as a set of extra combat rules and suggestions.

(Not trying to sound defensive, but probably failing.)

Brian.

[Aaron]

I get your point Brian.  You shouldnt feel the need to get defensive.  I was just surprised at just how rules light the book is and how the rules included covered some areas in detail, like the jousting, but other areas seemed to be lacking significantly, like the mounted combat rules and animal combat rules down to things that seem a little silly.
I'm not trying to run a "kill a dragon every week" type of game, just something nitty gritty.  That is what attracted me to TROS in the first place.  I was just hopping not to have to do a hole lot of "interpreting" of the rules again.  I guess that is what it comes down to me when looking at sourcebook which includes rules.  I like to think that the item I hand over my cash for has had a whole heap of folks poking holes in the rules( ie lots of play testing) and is about the best anyone can come up within the framework given.  The rules in this book don't look play tested much at all.
Its a nice looking book and the tables in the back probably make it worth the money for me.  

I bought both the PDF and the hardcopy and I am more than happy to support an independant roleplaying product.

[Lebo77]

I guess that is what it comes down to me when looking at sourcebook which includes rules.

Sounds like you are waiting for "The Flower of Battle"!

[Darth Tang]

Arron again said it well.

However, I wish your attitude had been clear while OBAM was being hyped, not after I bought it.

And in 250 hours of table-time, my fantasy game had exactly one dragon encounter. Nor is there an AD&D type swarm of sentinent creatures. But we do have the felines mentioned, and another race which does not use natural weaponry. I was hoping for some support, and did not receive any.

To me, TroS is a very unfinished product, with a generic world, a weak magic system, and a PC creation system that is good but needs work. The combat system was its strongest point (and the only part I use), but was still limited in application as noted. I expected a 140 page supplement, the first of its kind, to fill in the gaps, broaden the game's scope, and smooth out the rough spots. Instead, rules-lite.

And from your posts, I'm not likely going to like future Driftwood releases, assuming there are any more, as the direction TRoS is taking is far too narrow for my needs. But, at least you're not promising what you do not intend to deliver. I've enjoyed my time in this forum, and may check in now & again.

[Brian Leybourne]

And from your posts, I'm not likely going to like future Driftwood releases

As I said in my post, don't take what I said as Jake's words, that was all *my* opinion. He's writing TFOB, not me (although I hope to contribute in some areas) and, being a combat related suppliment it is likely to fill many of the areas you were hoping OBAM would (which is not a combat suppliment but one about, well, beasts and men.)

Brian.

[Ben Lehman]

And an example: in my campaign the PCs have earned the emnity of (among others) a rathi, or blood-clan, of a creature that is essentially a very intelligfent displacer beast of AD&D 1E: a mountain lion sized feline, very intelliigent, with two prehensile tentacle-like limbs growing from behind its shoulders. The PCs suffer from their attacks on regular occasions. The creature attaks with the backs of its 'tentacles', which have bony barbs, plus bite & claw.

BL>  It is remarkably easy to create one's own proficiencies for exotic weapon styles (which essentially, this is).

Rathi

Tentacle and Claw Prof--

Offensive Maneuvers
Tentacle Bash (0)
Double Bash (1)
Claw (0)
Bite (0)
Feint (1)
Push Open and Claw (1) [as Bind and Strike]
Grapple (2 or 4)

Defensive Maneuvers
Grapple (2)
Tentacle Parry (0)

(Note -- when grappling with its tentacles, the Rathi can make a claw or bite attack on the nigh helpless target.  Don't get grappled.)

Tentacles:
Length -- Medium
ATN -- 7
DTN -- 6 (only thrusting attacks may be defended)
Damage -- ST - 2b or ST - 1c

Total statting time -- less than 5 minutes

[Jake Norwood]

A few things:

1) If there's something combat-related you want to see add it to a TFOB thread. We start work on that shortly.

2) Things like giant-stomps, etc. Make a list of what you want and we'll add it to the PDF version, after some review and thought. Any revised PDFs will be free for those that have paid in advance. This was always our intention.

3) OBAM is an official TROS book, not just a "fan book." If there are mistakes--and I'm sure there are--then I am equally responsible as line editor. At the same time, this is a small-press one-man show, and everyone is going to have to deal with that fact. You don't like it, buy WoTC.

4) Would everyone please re-read the Seneschal chapter of the TROS core rulebook. Thank you.

Jake

[Janne Halmetoja]

Just bought OBAM today. I have mostly skimmed it trough and it looks nice book. Though some artwork is very amateurish and reminds me more about 80s RPG books. That's not a big deal and I can understand little amateurish look.

The Riddle of Steel is great game and I hope you get out TFOB little faster than OBAM :). I prefer to give my money for this kind of games than WoTCs. Keep up good work guys! :)

[StahlMeister]

Help!

Cannot order OBAM in Germany! Schluchtz!
Tried about 5 online shops, but no one has it or knows when it will arrive.

[Overdrive]

Directly from the webpage? That's how I got mine. If I just had time to read it through this weekend.. the book's been lying around for a couple of weeks now :/

[Brian Leybourne]

TFOB is in the works, and we hope to release 2 TROS books this year (this year meaning by next GenCon, not in 2003).

Thnaks for your kind words though, glad you liked the book.

Stahlmeister, you can order it online from the TROS webpage, or ask your FLGS to get it in.

Brian.

[Tywin Lannister]

Stahlmeister, you can buy Of Beast and Men from the very reliable U.K. online RPG store http://www.leisuregames.com, I have ordered many a thing from them and it all arrives shortly, even though I live in the cold wastes of Norway.

Brian, congratulations on the release of Of Beast and Men, I hope you aren't too let down by comments made here. I do understand the comments though, as I occassionally throw the The Riddle of Steel rulebook to the wall in anger because it is so very difficult to navigate this book, and there are so many minor omissions that make it hard to play the game without stopping the session and discuss how we are going to implement this or that rule.
Not that it matters much, as Jake mentioned, this is a one-man thing (or two), and from that point of view you have done a fantastic job.

I want you to know, in light of certain comments, that I am especially pleased with the attention given to jousting, as my campaign has *no* monsters or magic, but is filled with knights and damsels, the A Game of Thrones way.

I'm looking forward to [/i]The Flower of Battle.

One important question though: Will people like me, who do not own a PDF version but the real thing, be able to download corrected PDF pages/printouts of the tables?[/b]

[StahlMeister]

Finally found a seller in Germany who has OBAM. Great!!!
Now I have to wait a few days.

[Brian Leybourne]

Tywin,

It we make any changes to tables etc then yes, that would be reasonable I suppose (but untimately up to Jake). But really the only changes between 1st and 2nd printing were a few spelling slipups etc.

Brian.