Two quick combat questions

[Southpaw]

My friends and I have started playing TROS and as I was looking through the book a few questions came up.

My character has the Sword and Shield proficiency at 8. His shield gets knocked away in the heat of the battle and he's just using his longsword. The Greatsword/Longsword proficiency defaults at -2 (6 in this case). Am I correct in interpreting the rules to say that maneuvers like Evasive Attack, Stop Short and Half-sword are unavailable since they're "defaulted" maneuvers and not part of the Sword and Shield list?

Two combatants are fighting using medium length weapons. One fighter Counters the other's attack successfully and the result on page 64 is a Pommel strike. Do you impose a CP penalty for different weapon length since the Pommel would be in the Hand category? Or is the defender assumed to have closed the distance as part of the Counter? And, assuming a successful Pommel Strike, is the distance now "Hand" giving both fighters a CP penalty to attack and/or defend with their weapons?

Sorry if this is well-covered territory. I've been using the search engine to try and keep from re-hashing old topics.

Thanx

[Durgil]

I think I can answer that first question for you.  The only limitation for a defaulted proficiency is that it cannot be higher than 6 without formal training (bottom of page 50, 1st column).  Otherwise, you example is correct: Sword and Shield default to Greatsword/Longsword -2, so your skill in Greatsword/Longsword is 6.  The Greatsword/Longsword proficiency includes the maneuver Evasive Attack, so while using just your longsword, you can perform all of the maneuvers of that proficiency as long as you have a high enough proficiency level.

[Draigh]

I can't speak for anyone else, but  here's what I would assume.

My character has the Sword and Shield proficiency at 8. His shield gets knocked away in the heat of the battle and he's just using his longsword. The Greatsword/Longsword proficiency defaults at -2 (6 in this case). Am I correct in interpreting the rules to say that maneuvers like Evasive Attack, Stop Short and Half-sword are unavailable since they're "defaulted" maneuvers and not part of the Sword and Shield list?

1) You can use the sword and shield style without the shield, so you really don't have to default to longsword/greatsword, but to use maneuvers from longsword/greatsword, you would pay the default cost in addition to any other activation cost per the maneuver.  I might be wrong, but that makes sense to me.

Two combatants are fighting using medium length weapons. One fighter Counters the other's attack successfully and the result on page 64 is a Pommel strike. Do you impose a CP penalty for different weapon length since the Pommel would be in the Hand category? Or is the defender assumed to have closed the distance as part of the Counter? And, assuming a successful Pommel Strike, is the distance now "Hand" giving both fighters a CP penalty to attack and/or defend with their weapons?

2) I would assume that since the fighter successfully parried, he would be able to "define" the range...   I wouldn't think the pommel strike would incur any penalty.

hope it helps
Draigh

[Jake Norwood]

I support Draigh on this one. As for the pommel strike, normally you have to deal with range, but the counter maneuver will always put you into optimal range for the attack it gives you in the roll.

Jake

[Southpaw]

Thanks for the replies.

As for the pommel strike, normally you have to deal with range, but the counter maneuver will always put you into optimal range for the attack it gives you in the roll.

So in the classic "dagger vs. pike" example, the dagger-wielder can just counter successfully and then he's within optimal range regardless of whether or not the follow-up attack is successful (during which, pike-guy is at -5 CP)?

[Southpaw]

IF the dagger proficiency had a Counter maneuver, that is. (Just glanced at the book, again)

[Jake Norwood]

In theory...yeah.

Jake

[Valamir]

Hmmm.
If you attack with a shorter weapon you take a CP penelty because you have to close range to get in the strike.

If you defend with a shorter weapon you don't take the penelty on the theory that the enemy weapon is coming to you.

It occurs to me, that perhaps defending with a counter should get hit with the CP penelty on the theory that it still has to close range to in the strike.  If successful, then the CP penelty for the follow-up strike is negated as it would be following a successful hit.

I like this idea mechanically, because the Counter really is the queen of the maneuvers.  A little added disadvantage to it is a good thing IMO.

Would this be a reasonable approach Jake?

[Jake Norwood]

So long as the counter is randomly rolled, I say leave it.

Jake

[Durgil]

I support Draigh on this one.

I was of the understanding that Greatsword/Longsword proficiency included the use of bastard swords and longswords.  If I use one of those with a shield, then I'm using the Sword and Shield proficiency.  I just assumed that without a shield, it would automatically resort back to the Greatsword/Longsword proficiency.  I took the part of the Sword and Shield proficiency where it said something about using just a sword only means that you can't use any of the shield maneuvers but you keep using this proficiency if you are using something shorter than a longsword or bastard sword.

Hmmm...I guess I see what you're say.  If I start off with an 8 in my Sword and Shield proficiency and I'm fighting with a bastard sword and shield, then, for what ever reason, I drop my shield, I'm still using my 8 proficiency as long as I stay with the Sword and Shield maneuvers.  If my character wants to do an Evasive Attack, I have to use my Greatsword/Longsword default proficiency of 6 since that maneuver isn't listed under the Sword and Shield's maneuvers.

Is that right?

[Jake Norwood]

The thing is that you can use a longsword single-handed with either the longsword or S&S prof. ONe will fight like a longsword guy, one will fight like a S&S man. DIfferent maneuvers, same weapon.

Jake

[Durgil]

Thanks, Jake.  It's these types of mechanics questions that I enjoy the most on the forum.

[Draigh]

Jake Norwood wrote:

ONe will fight like a longsword guy, one will fight like a S&S man. DIfferent maneuvers, same weapon.

Yeah, that's what I meant.  Guess I wasn't too far off then.