Problems with my gaming group (long....sorry)

[MonkeyWrench]

Hello everyone, this'll be my first post outside of tht RoS boards, so here goes....

I've been playing with the people I play with now for about 2 years. With one notable exception I am always the GM. I started with this group because my last group sort of disolved as we parted ways after high school. So here are some problems I've been having with them, any feedback is appreciated.

1) Gamer #1 - She has only been playing RPGs for as long as I have been running them in this group. She is an avid DnD fan, but doesn't feel that the system works past hack-n-slash type games. Although she loves to talk about playing and such getting her to actually play takes an act of God and even then she is conastantly busy with something else, smoking, henna tattoos, doodling, etc...
She happens to be a very close friend so this only makes thing harder. She gets very defensive whenever I try to bring up the problems I have. How can I help her get more interested in the game and pay more attention?

2) Gamer #2 - He's one of these "weekend" gamers. He's probably been playing the same version of his character ever since he started roleplaying. While it's good to have him fill in a seat he never really gets involved and constantly needs to be reminded of whats going on. What do I need to do to help him get more into the actual roleplaying aspect?

3) Gamer #3 - He used to be a hardcore roleplayer. It didn't matter when we played he'd be there first with everything ready to go. Now I have to remind him at least once a day of when we're playing. In addition he always plays the same character as well, even when he tries to branch out and play something different. What can I do to get him more interested in playing again?

These are the three main people I play with, sometimes there are more, but for the most part this is it. I realise that you can't make people do anything, and if they are just not interested then there isn't much I can do. It's getting frustrating though because after a 4 hour or so session (which is a loooong session by our standards) we have only actually played maybe an hour and a half to two hours. By the end of this time I'm ready to stop playing with them altogether. Roleplaying has become a chore, I feel like a babysitter sometimes. All three say they want more story and meaning to their games, but they aren't willing to do any of the work associated with it.

Am I just being too stubborn or do I need to find a new group? Someone give me some words of encouragement because I am at the end of my rope. Thank you.

(Sorry for the rant-ish post)

[Bankuei]

Hi MW,

Sounds like good friends, bad gamers(or at least people not into gaming as much anymore).  I'd hang out with them, and seek a new gaming group.  You may find that other players may draw one or two of them back into gaming.  Especially if your friends; don't want to "miss out", are jealous of your time, or find any of the new folks worth socializing with.

Chris

[MonkeyWrench]

They're definetly good friends, and I definetly don't want to lose them.

I'm in the process of finding one, but it's been harder than I thought. For some reason most gaming groups around here tend to not be very opened minded about new members (my current group included). I've posted flyers and all that stuff but it's gonna take some time.

[Scripty]

1) Gamer #1 - She has only been playing RPGs for as long as I have been running them in this group. She is an avid DnD fan, but doesn't feel that the system works past hack-n-slash type games. Although she loves to talk about playing and such getting her to actually play takes an act of God and even then she is conastantly busy with something else, smoking, henna tattoos, doodling, etc...
She happens to be a very close friend so this only makes thing harder. She gets very defensive whenever I try to bring up the problems I have. How can I help her get more interested in the game and pay more attention?

2) Gamer #2 - He's one of these "weekend" gamers. He's probably been playing the same version of his character ever since he started roleplaying. While it's good to have him fill in a seat he never really gets involved and constantly needs to be reminded of whats going on. What do I need to do to help him get more into the actual roleplaying aspect?

3) Gamer #3 - He used to be a hardcore roleplayer. It didn't matter when we played he'd be there first with everything ready to go. Now I have to remind him at least once a day of when we're playing. In addition he always plays the same character as well, even when he tries to branch out and play something different. What can I do to get him more interested in playing again?

Other than Riddle of Steel and D&D, what games do you play with this group? It sounds to me like a mismatch between what the players want or expect and the type of game that you are running. On the surface, judging from your questions, I would recommend playing something like Trollbabe or the Pool, whose rules pretty much enforce some degree of player input.

But if your group is more Gamist, I would recommend trying Donjon. It might meet their expectations of a dungeon crawl while also pulling some input from them.

I don't know the group, however. So it's hard to judge.

[Bankuei]

Hi MW,

I've always found it easier to build groups of non-gamers, rather than the other way around.  Usually I find friends who happen to be into similar things along the lines of movies, books, tv shows, videogames, etc. and introduce them to gaming via simpler games such as the Pool, Teenagers from outerspace, Feng Shui, etc.

Chris

[iago]

It's getting frustrating though because after a 4 hour or so session (which is a loooong session by our standards) we have only actually played maybe an hour and a half to two hours. By the end of this time I'm ready to stop playing with them altogether. Roleplaying has become a chore, I feel like a babysitter sometimes. All three say they want more story and meaning to their games, but they aren't willing to do any of the work associated with it.

Am I just being too stubborn or do I need to find a new group? Someone give me some words of encouragement because I am at the end of my rope. Thank you.

Read that first paragraph I'm quoting a few times, objectively, and then read your question as an outsider.  Personally, I think that the answer suggests itself pretty readily.

If you still want to be stubborn, though, I'd work on running through a lot of one-shot games using lightweight systems, preferrably indie ones you can find here at the Forge.  There are a number of systems around that can get you some serious "investment" from (proper-attitude-d) players without a large up-front investment of work.  This may get the "more story and meaning from the games" but without "the work associated with it" -- that right there may be a general goal for these guys.

[JamesDJIII]

$gm@rpg_group> fdisk /dev/currentgroup < /dev/NULL

Seriously, I think this one is dead. Move on.

Bring it up and say, "I've about had it, it's not fun and here's why."

If that doesn't produce the results, then just explain that it's not working out for you. If they are adults, then they well understand and not feel "abandoned."  

If you look for a new group or form one, and you don't give them the chance to come to grips with your pain, then they may feel you've treated them unfairly.

Good luck! Life is too short to be second fiddle.

[MonkeyWrench]

Thanks everyone for the replies. I'm in the process of trying to find a new group (any tips). While I haven't told the current group anything yet I can only hope that they take it like adults <crosses fingers>

[JamesDJIII]

No tips for finding a new group... or finding good people to form a new one.

If yuo have sucess, let us know.

[Paul Czege]

Hey MW,

Have you seen the http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=1095">on making the same character over and over thread?

Paul

[Callan S.]

Hello everyone, this'll be my first post outside of tht RoS boards, so here goes....

I've been playing with the people I play with now for about 2 years. With one notable exception I am always the GM. I started with this group because my last group sort of disolved as we parted ways after high school. So here are some problems I've been having with them, any feedback is appreciated.

1) Gamer #1 - She has only been playing RPGs for as long as I have been running them in this group. She is an avid DnD fan, but doesn't feel that the system works past hack-n-slash type games. Although she loves to talk about playing and such getting her to actually play takes an act of God and even then she is conastantly busy with something else, smoking, henna tattoos, doodling, etc...
She happens to be a very close friend so this only makes thing harder. She gets very defensive whenever I try to bring up the problems I have. How can I help her get more interested in the game and pay more attention?

I think she just likes talking and is getting more out of talking about it than doing it. I'd actually suggest not talking about gaming with her...avoid the subject. Make her save her energy for the day. If she still doesn't turn up, thats it, give up on her.

2) Gamer #2 - He's one of these "weekend" gamers. He's probably been playing the same version of his character ever since he started roleplaying. While it's good to have him fill in a seat he never really gets involved and constantly needs to be reminded of whats going on. What do I need to do to help him get more into the actual roleplaying aspect?

Don't. You just have to have one of these guys. You just end up with one just as much as you end up with a GM trying to convince him to roleplay. Nothing will change with either! :)

3) Gamer #3 - He used to be a hardcore roleplayer. It didn't matter when we played he'd be there first with everything ready to go. Now I have to remind him at least once a day of when we're playing. In addition he always plays the same character as well, even when he tries to branch out and play something different. What can I do to get him more interested in playing again?

Ask him what he liked in those old days, what thrilled him. Try and put them in. Show him how you put them in. Tell him its up to him if he comes next game, otherwise you give up. No more reminders.

*snip*

Am I just being too stubborn or do I need to find a new group? Someone give me some words of encouragement because I am at the end of my rope. Thank you.

A little stubborn with #2, otherwise remember this...when you were all in school, your parents cooked and cleaned for you. Now you all have to do it yourselves...this means less spare energy. Try and think of it as a problem with circumstances, more than it being about them.

[MonkeyWrench]

Noon,

I get what your saying and in truth you are right on all accounts. My main problem is that I really like playing with these people because they're such good friends. However as far as roleplayers go there are ones that get more into it. Since I started this thread I've joined another group as a player (so I no longer have to GM! a first!) and we had a great session together the other night. I just wish they weren't playing 3.5 DnD. Oh well, life isn't perfect...at least I'm playing.

[Brian Leybourne]

This is something I have experienced also. My friends I have gamed with for many many years became less interesting to game with (they're more gamist slant while I am more Narr/Sim), and a new group mostly put together piecemeal (half of which I had never met prior to the first session) turned out to be excellent and has been together for 7 years now and still going strong (and now we're all good friends).

Or in other words: make good roleplayers into friends, but don't necessarily expect your friends to be good roleplayers :-)

Brian.

[Ron Edwards]

Words to live by, Brian.

Best,
Ron

[Marco]

I'll second Ron's seconding of Brian's post.

I have a few suggestions:

1. New Blood--find 1 or 2 gamers (FLGS, post on RPGnet, etc.)--adding one or two new gamers won't result in a new group of friends--but may help galvanize things.

2. Re-establish commitment. The group I've fairly recently started GMing for had technically just broken up (and the break up was regretted by those involved) due to not being able to get anything started.

I made the commitment to run 3-5 sessions of a game (a 1-shot) and I told them that:
a) we'd start on time.
b) characters would be made when we got there (using Yahoo Message Boards we organized that)
c) the world background would posted 4 days prior to play--so we could get into things right away.

I set the game at every-other-week--which worked for busy schedules. It has worked remarkably well (we're running the final chapter next week--and while we didn't *always* start on time--energy has been high).

3. What I ran was a bit different than what they're used to--not stunningly different--but different enough (I think) to get interest high. And we used a new game that none of us knew too well (Savage Worlds).

Switching things up (even a little) can re-ignite interest.

-Marco