Selling thru Indie Gaming Parties

[Michael S. Miller]

My wife goes to these parties to buy Pampered Chef kitchen utensils. What happens is the hostess invites a bunch of her friends over, a Pampered Chef demo person makes them some food, using the utensils, the ladies have fun and buy scads of kitchen stuff. Tupperware uses, or at least used, the same "party" model.

Of course, my thought was: Could indie rpgs adapt this sort of sales technique? My thought was that a demo person could arrange a party for a handful of GMs in his area. The demo person could showcase--and sell--one or two games per party.

The advantages I see are: These would take place in private homes, side-stepping often unhelpful retailers; Potential customers would get to see the game on its feet; By targeting primarily folks who actually run games--but, ideally for different groups--you increase the chance of multiple sales per party; If orders are taken at the party--like Pampered Chef does it--then you'd only need to ship books that are actually sold.

The obstacles I see are: Each publisher would need to decide how to reward the Demo Person for putting together the party--I'm thinking that in addition to time, running the game, and answering questions, some sort of food would be involved; Finding GMs--or other gamers in general--in one's area ain't easy

Anyway, those are my thoughts. What does everyone else think?

[Lxndr]

I have considered doing something similar in my city, at least in terms of encouraging exposure (though I didn't think of targeting it solely at GMs).  I called it the "RPG Grab Bag" and might one day get around to doing it.  Generally, it'd be a more "constant" presence, weekly or biweekly in one game store, bringing in different games and playing through a one-shot (or sometimes a 2-3 session short campaign) using the system.

Something like what you're discussing would be even more interesting, though more difficult to do unless you were already enmeshed into a gamer network (I'm not, hence the "hold it at the retailer's" angle).  I could rent out, say, the clubhouse in my housing complex.  Hmm, maybe even have multiple potential GMs.

This is a neat idea, either way.

[DevP]

Would Meetups work for this? (I've been thinking about the possiblity of indy-rpg meetups for a while; or you could just crash a general Roleplayers' Meetup.)

[Clay]

You need to consider your potential market for this to work.  Things like Pampered Chef or Tupperware work huge on the Guilt factor. My wife goes to these things strictly because she feels that she owes it to her girlfriends to attend their parties.  Likewise she buys there because she feels obligated to buy to help them out.  It's damned rare for her to need or even want something from one of these parties.

I don't know if this will work nearly as well with a mixed crowd. My friends and I are generally perfectly willing to let somebody who gets mixed up with this network marketing hang out to dry.

It's worth trying though.  It may just be a matter of the right product for the right crowd.  I recently had a similar experience with my beer.  In June we hosted a big party, and the beer we served was a homebrew that was pretty free flowing. It was also a dark beer, which a lot of people don't like. Since then though, everybody I've asked about the beer has indicated that they'd be willing to buy a case or two if I was making it again (not that I can get away with selling beer this way, with a cop living across the street).

[Mike Holmes]

I dunno, Clay, what about the RPG playing segment seems less prone to this sort of marketing? Is it that we know it's a game, and one that we aren't required to play? I'm not sure. Sounds a bit to me like the sort of thing where people say that RPG players are smarter than the average person. I mean, are you sure this isn't just anecdotal and your own experience?

I mean, honestly, I think I could be caught by the guilt factor. It does exist with Indie RPGs, too. That is, I like to support designers. I do buy games that I might not ever play (though that's because of constraints: I'd play every game I buy if I had time).

I'm somewhat ambivalet about the ethics of such behavior, however.


The real problem I see is getting people to invite you in. How do you advertise? Given the insularity of many groups, and the fact that gaming is social, how do you break that barrier to entry?

Mike

[W. Don]

Given the insularity of many groups, and the fact that gaming is social, how do you break that barrier to entry?

Man, am I so stuck with this problem. For reference, see: http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=7606.

I'm actually off to one of the small local gaming cons this coming September, to socialise and network with the gaming groups in my area. The trouble really is that, I seem to be the only one within a few thousand miles who's ever heard of The Forge or the great games being discussed here.

I'm faced with heavyweight competition as nearly of the people I'll be meeting will likely be heavy into White Wolf or D20 and not much more (they're also into warhammer, hero-clix, etc. but those aren't RPGs). I've actually explicitly been told not to demo any other games other than the ones the sponsor has in stock (WW and d20). Sigh, there goes my InSpectres demo plans.

Ah well. Life goes on. Hopefully my sheer charm and dashing good looks will save the day. ;o)

I feel so damned subversive or something.

- W.

[Luke]

This can be done.  You just can't think of it like a sales rep. The more important aspect of the venture would be to introduce kids to the "other side" of gaming and make them feel like part of the secret society.

I recently ran a Burning Wheel Demo in my apartment for four kids i'd never met before. ("Kids" is my general term for all gamers, it does not denote age). My demo lasts about 4 hours and includes a full gamut of game quandries. It was a great time for all. Did I sell like Mary Kay? No, I sold one set. But more importantly, those kids had a good time and would play the game again (at cons or other in-home demos).

So I say again: Mike, you are on the right track. This can be done.

-L

[Mike Holmes]

Actually, Don, that might be it. Use more popular games to get in the door, and then, like Luke says, mention to them that you also do "indie demos". I like Luke's idea of giving it some cache. Pitch it like this:

"I think you guys are open-minded enough and good enough gamers to be ready for some really advanced stuff. I mean all these games are fine and all, but you wouldn't want to try our Secret Indie Demo, would you?"

:-)

Mike

[DevP]

I (almost) wish we could engeder a scenester-esqe veneration of anything deemed "indie", like they have the music world.

Then again, maybe we're better off without. <g>

[W. Don]

It really does all boil down to the social scene, even in the case of Michael's original "Pampered Chef Demo" suggestion. Using the more popular games as an avenue would be great.

Via PM, Bankuei suggested to me that maybe it might be cool if I could show them player narration driven Vampire:tM (ala InSpectres' task roll success). If I'm able to get the chance, I'd try pulling something like that off. Right now though, my main objective is simply to scout the scene, and get myself and the rest of my playing group out there mingling with the other kiddies.

Pitch it like this:

"I think you guys are open-minded enough and good enough gamers to be ready for some really advanced stuff. I mean all these games are fine and all, but you wouldn't want to try our Secret Indie Demo, would you?"

Hmmm. I'll take note of that. Sure sounds better than, "Hiya! Would you like to be my Trollbabe?"

:o)

[Mike Holmes]

It really does all boil down to the social scene, even in the case of Michael's original "Pampered Chef Demo" suggestion.

Here's where my reluctance sets in. That is, if these people are really friends how is it different from a regular game. Except that after wards I pull out copies and say, "Now Dave, which games are you taking home with you?"

Sorry, I could do that to strangers, but not to friends. And therein lies the problem. If, as Ron says, gaming should be amongst people with already established social bonds, then how can I ever be successful doing something like this when I wouldn't want to give the hard-sell to people I know.

OTOH, perhaps it's just a personal problem. :-)

Mike

[Clay]

The trick to making it work would be not using the hard sell. Use a soft sell - let the games sell themselves.  Have them available to sell, or order blanks to send home with people.

[Michael S. Miller]

Thanks for all the responses, folks. This one particularly struck a chord:

The trick to making it work would be not using the hard sell. Use a soft sell - let the games sell themselves.  Have them available to sell, or order blanks to send home with people.

In my experience, the "soft sell" in our gamer subculture becomes into "Dude, can I borrow your game?" which translates into fewer sales, not more. I recall John Wick had a rant about this in a Game Designer's Journal right after the release of Orkworld. That's why my original idea targeted GMs of different groups. In my experience it's usually the GM that buys games, and players often just use the GM's books. IIRC, even the WotC marketing survey bears out that GMs purchase lots more product than those who identified themselves as "just players." It's a sticky problem.

[Mike Holmes]

That's why my original idea targeted GMs of different groups. In my experience it's usually the GM that buys games, and players often just use the GM's books.

To put this in context, before I got online and started disccussing these things, I didn't realize that players ever bought their own books. Why would a group need more than one set? I mean, sure we had more than one GM, and when playing a in another GM's game, they'd bring books along. And I guess it was seen as a nice convenience. But it still boggles me that players would own copies, just to play. The idea is still foreign to me. And loaning was par for the course as well.

I don't want to start up the battle over author's rights, etc. Just pointing out that I think this mindset is common.

Mike

[Perrina]

Have you considered checking with local after school groups, teen centers, etc. to see if they'd like to host a game party?  Then you could gather a gaggle of greenies and young veterans together to introduce them to the games.  The young are often quite impressionable and if you get one of them to want to buy, you might get their friends to buy.

Good lord, I sound like a dealer!

**Come here little boy, I have a nice piece of paper with ink for you to sniff...**

But I think you get the idea.  Just another random thought.

Kerrie