my order just arrived

[joshua neff]

I just got my copy of HeroQuest in the mail.

Snap response, based on flipping through it: the layout, the design, the whole set-up is a huge improvement over Hero Wars. The "major conflicts" map & the "homelands" map are both fantastic, & a huge help to people not intimately familiar with Glorantha. There's some really, really nice artwork, too.

I'll post more after I've read more. So, don't anybody call me--I won't be answering my phone.

[joshua neff]

Okay, more thoughts:

Lots of examples of play. Loads. This is a very, very good thing.

I like the Homelands. Not that I didn't like the Culture keywords of Hero Wars, but I don't think the change to "Homelands" isn't a bad one. And the write-ups for the various Homelands do a good job of quickly communicating the feel of those cultures. (Although I have some issues with the Teshnos Homeland. I mean, I like it, & I like the "hot spot" map which makes reference to Teshnos, but the Teshnos Homeland page makes no reference to the New Law War, & I haven't found any other references to it in the book. And it sounds damn interesting.)

I like the standardized Occupations, too. It just makes character creation a wee bit smoother, I think.

APs are now "Adventure Points" instead of "Action Points." To-may-to, to-mah-to--they still work the same way.

At first, my group was worried about the Augmentation change--with automatic Augmentations replacing the gambled Augmentations of Hero Wars. But I like that both ways are included. I never found rolling for Augmentations to significantly slow down play, but I can see going with the automatic Augments, too.

I haven't made it through all of the magic chapters yet, but so far everything is presented in a much clearer fashion than in Hero Wars. And I like Common Magic. I can easily see any or all PC heroes starting with Common Magic & through the course of play getting involved in some religion or tradition or wizardry practice.

And hey! recycled Paul Jaquays art! Boy, that takes me back!

My overall opinion? Way back when, I bought Runequest. First edition. I was intrigued. The map of Dragon Pass, the vague descriptions of Glorantha, the runes...I was interested in this world. But the game didn't really give me any ideas of what to do with it, except to play a D&D-style game (which back then meant pretty much dungeoncrawls, & little else). Hero Wars came out & mostly because of Ron's enthusiasm, I bought it. It took a few read-throughs & some actual play before I really appreciated it, & even then I felt a bit lost in Glorantha. I still wasn't really sure what to do with this world.

Reading HeroQuest is the first time setting & mechanics really meshed for me, Glorantha-wise. Just a basic read-through has left me with a "Holy cow, I wanna run that!" feeling. I've got that same gee-whizzy feeling I had when I was 11 & stumbling onto all of these new role-playing games.

So, to everyone involved: you did a fantastic job. Thanks.

Oh, there is one thing. Page 229, the little box with the clenched fist. Patriots don't "ferment" rebellion, they "foment" it. Unless they're using powerful & magical yeast.

[Mark Galeotti]

Oh, there is one thing. Page 229, the little box with the clenched fist. Patriots don't "ferment" rebellion, they "foment" it.

Nonsense -- it's been brewing for  some time now ;-)

Thanks for the first thoughts,

Mark

[Mike Holmes]

We found one other spelling error. I think that the Ducks have a skill listed as having to do with Steams, which I think was supposed to be Streams.

Uh, the fact that we had to hunt for these speaks to the improved editing, really. After HW, we were worried. Turns out to be without cause.

Mike

[Bankuei]

My copy just arrived today, managed to skim through some parts...

Initial thoughts:

-Layout looks good, artwork, recycled or not, is also good.
-Big Yay!  for examples
-Occupations, Homelands descriptions are great, now I feel like I have a better grasp of the world
-Pics for each Homeland helps a LOT!
-Clear, excellent explainations of cinematic style vs. simulation of events, especially in regards to AP contests
-I don't dig the cover art, I ordered the specialized Rune copy, and would have preferred a simple cover with either just the Rune, or the Rune and Title.
-Wish more of the art got more space.  Again, pet peeve.

Chris

[Paul Czege]

I don't dig the cover art, I ordered the specialized Rune copy, and would have preferred a simple cover with either just the Rune, or the Rune and Title.

Is there a scan of someone's limited edition cover anywhere online?

Paul

[Mike Holmes]

Yeah, Chris, there are a huge number of examples all well differentiated by the rune system from the rest of the text. Maybe more than I've seen in any other game. If you don't get how something works from the rules, I imagine the examples will make it clear. Very cool.

Mike

[Bankuei]

Ok, I've dug through about 75% of the book at this point, here's some more in-depth thoughts about it...

"HQ is to narrativism what GURPS is to Sim"

This thought runs through my head, because while HQ does give you some background ideas, nothing is really that in depth, instead, the cultures, the religions, etc, are all basically examples from which you can use as inspiration.  Granted, you can go and buy the Lunar book, and get the full rundown on Lunars, or you can basically make up your own world, which totally fits in the YGWV rule.  Just like GURPs, you can take what they give you and run with it, or buy all the books for details done.  

Personalize, personalize, personalize

For HQ to fly, you really need to take some time to flesh out your particular game.  That is, you need to establish(or be working on a common understanding) of a culture, and push forth conflict(Situation) along with Premise to really make it go.  Which again, is not much different than GURPS in that sense.  I think it gets briefly touched on in the Goals section of character creation, but I think that its very necessary for the group to have a good grasp on conflict, since its not spoon fed to you like many other games("We're clan X we hate Clan Y!").

The Examples point to the unspoken...

Reading through the examples, numerous times you can find actual negotiation between the GM and the players, ranging from costs of Hero Points to how much a trait would apply, etc.  This sense of negotiation, of an open social contract really says a lot more than the typical "fudge the rules if you don't like'em" sort of thing you get in most games, because it shows functional negotiation happening.

I'm coming more and more to the conclusion that recognition of the Lumpley principle is the basis for any functional set of rules.  The less the rules cover social contract negotiation, even in the sense of providing guidelines, the more dysfunctional play is likely to crop up.  While HQ gives some basic advice, its the examples that really provide the meat.

Also, because the examples also show the same characters, changing over time, that is, changing religions, learning, growing, etc, it points to the idea of the growing character, as opposed to the static character.  Again, great job.  It would be cool if some examples of changing communities or societies were provided.

HQ demands some familiarity....

with the anthropology and mythology.  While this is home territory for some of us, many gamers aren't as in touch with the concepts behind it, making it harder for them to grasp the idea of "making your own mythology" or of cultures chaging, of the dynamic world of Glorantha.  Some advice along these lines would have been great for those folks.

Trollbabe and HQ

I find a lot of cool similarities in the two games.  And I also find that a lot of Trollbabe style play techniques would work very well for HQ.  There's a nod to Scene Request style play in the Narrating section, although I think I couldn't play it any other way.  There's also similarities in risking your Followers in any conflict to TB's relationship mechanics.  Finally, I'd also be big on pushing some form of Stakes in HQ, just to make conflict more solid and concrete.  I also see a lot of influences from HW to TB.  I think fans of both games can learn a lot by playing a little of the other.

-Minor (personal) squibbles-

I think some of the concepts presented could have received more guidelines and information, particularly the nods toward Scene Framing, Scene Request and making your own myths and cultures.  But again, minor squibbles.

All in all, I'm very much looking forward to playing this.

Chris

[Nick the Nevermet]

HQ demands some familiarity....

with the anthropology and mythology.  While this is home territory for some of us, many gamers aren't as in touch with the concepts behind it, making it harder for them to grasp the idea of "making your own mythology" or of cultures chaging, of the dynamic world of Glorantha.  Some advice along these lines would have been great for those folks.

Yeah... that's been happening to me.  I'm a setting slut by my own admission, but wow.  Don't get me wrong: Not knowing anything about Glorantha before hand, just owning this one book gives me more than enough to work with.  It's just that the book definitely feels like everything has been worked out, and I'd left feeling like there are many sourcebooks I want in order to understand the setting.

This really isn't a complaint, it's just me stating the fact that Glorantha is a rather deep, rich setting.

As for complaints?  Eh... I'm tempted to say character creation was confusing, but that was mostly caused by me wanting more clear explicit and FIXED statements on what abilities, talents, magic, personality traits, & relationships keywords give me.  It took me some time, but I got it now (I think).  I can't say how much of this was the book not being clear and me needing something as clear & rigid as, say, d20 or GURPS.

The only thing I know is a complaint is a very minor one: I also would have liked a page or two write-ups on all the 'hot-spots' on that one map.

So, all in all, I'm a happy dingbat.  :)

[Ron Edwards]

And I finally received mine! I was hoping to come home to it when I returned from vacation on August 30th. I did get the paperback, but my Thed-rune hardcover was mysteriously absent, and remained so.

A person at Warehouse 23 was kind enough to call last week, to tell me that my copy had a scuffed spine. Would I like to choose from a few other copies they had, with various other runes on them? Would I like a refund?

My eyes narrowed. How scuffed? Kind of pebbly along the spine, she said. Any internal, structural damage to the binding, or scoring on the front? Nope.

Send it! I said. It now has character. (I have mental images of people at the warehouse recognizing the Thed rune and, in disgust, booting the book along the concrete floor, but that is probably doing them a disservice.)

And now it's here. A beauty, although, as with Chris Chinn, not what I expected. I like hefting it, and flipping its pages.

Best,
Ron

[joshua neff]

So, what do you think, Ron? How does it compare to Hero Wars? How do you think it works as someone's introduction to Glorantha?

[Scripty]

Mine's been here since last Thursday. I don't think I've been without it since (except for, of course, work). I'm about half-way through the book and I must say that it is thick (with information).

I don't think I've ever owned an rpg with this much information in it. Ever. Everytime I finish a section I think to myself, "Now what could they do now to make me read another entire chapter front to back?" And sure enough, something else is covered and I wind up reading every word, sentence and paragraph.

It's been kind of a slow read for me, getting used to the new mechanics and all. The examples are really helpful, in most cases. Also note that the system is everything that everyone is saying it is. I've read puffed up praise for other systems or implementations of other systems before. But this delivers. HeroQuest is a really powerful system. As powerful as the Pool but a bit meatier, IMO. There's more of a game to HQ and all the narration, FWICT.

And man! It's like they crammed a core rulebook and a few sourcebooks into this thing. Not that I'm complaining...

Considering all that is contained in this book, I think this is one of the biggest values I've gotten out of an RPG, even at $40. It's like a Player's Handbook, DMG, Monster Manual, Setting Sourcebook and Magic Sourcebook all in one hefty volume.

I'm seriously tempted to fork over for a hardback copy...


EDIT: Clairified what I meant by the book being "thick"

[Ron Edwards]

Hi Josh,

Gimme a few days, all right?

Best,
Ron

[joshua neff]

No, Ron, now!

And by that I mean...of course, take your time. I know you're busy.