D20 Donjon... Uh, wait!

[MachMoth]

I think this topic could have stood up in Actual Play, but I always consider the Theory forum as a catch all.

Anyways, my players have shown interest in playing our next session as D20 Modern, but want to include the narration elements of Donjon with it.  I tried to talk them into just playing Donjon with a modern setting, but that fell on mostly deaf ears.  Many of them are D&D purists, and getting them to even play Modern is a major step forward.  So, I'm willing to give in to this inane request if it means weening them off of the WotC t**.

Now, as to how to actually pull this off.  I've had a few ideas, but they don't flow well, or just don't feel comfortable.  One idea was to spend action points on successes, but I'm already not comfortable with the Action Point system, and it would be too limiting.  Another was to count winning a contest as a success, and every 5 points over the opponent as a success, but I don't know if it would be worth the extra math.

The concept doesn't sound like a total loss, and it could add an interesting element to the tactical map battles.  Instead of attacking every round, the player could take time to search for environmental aids.  It would make chase scenes practically run themselves (and be fun).  Letting the players find the items they want would also add an new element into play.  Lastly, the GM's won't have to plan near as much (which is part of the reason they suggested it.)  

I know most of the people here aren't too keen on D20.  I liked it, but it gets old.  Some of my players are interested in branching off into other games, while some can't let go of that big security blanket with D&D in bright gold stitched on it.  This is our teams first big step, and I'm not giving in an inch.

[Bankuei]

Hi MM,

Here's some potential ideas for D20 hacks to bring over some ideas.

#1 The quick and easy:

Success means you get 1 fact, period.  Critical success means you get 2.  Deal with it.  If you want to make things a little niftier, bring in carryover success, so that success in one roll gives a +2 to a related roll next time.

#2 The slightly more complex version:

Don't go for every 5 over, just make your life simpler; Make it every multiple of 5 over.  Enemy has AC of 18?  If you get 20 + that's 1 fact, 25, that's 2 facts, etc.  Quick math.  If you want to bring in the carryover element, give a +2 bonus for every fact used as a bonus.

Chris

[jdagna]

I don't know how far your guys want to depart from d20, but Donjon's core mechanic is almost 100% compatible with d20's advancement and skill system.  In Donjon, you roll a pool of d20's equal to your stat plus your ability.  In a d20 system, just roll a pool of d20's equal to your ability modifiers (and any other modifiers) plus skill rank.  Skill ranks are capped by level much like in Donjon, and your ability modifers have a slightly higher range (+/-4 for base stats).  Negative ability modifiers can actually make tests impossible without a relevant skill (which would fix something that's nagged at me about low-level Donjon play).  Use a modified set of DCs for the resistance pool, or the enemy's relevant skill.  The Wealth System is already very close to compatible with Donjon's Wealth and Provisions.

Damn, I like this idea... a crunchy Donjon.  I'll use it even if you don't :)  I'll have to come back and give a report on how it went if I ever have the time (and a group) to do it.

[MachMoth]

Thanks guys,
Maybe this will be workable after all.  I'm going to keep it at one d20, just because of the audience (see also, D&D Fanboys).  It has to retain the illusion of D20.  However, they are always much more willing to try new rules, if they think it was a house rule of my own creation (you got to love that kind of trust).  I'll run these by some of my more level headed group members, and get this baby rolling.  I didn't even notice how close the wealth system in Modern was to Donjon.  That means I can cetainly give them the ability to call their own treasure now.  Cool beans.

[DevP]

Wow, you guys are buggerin' smart. <g>

I think AnvilWerks should put out a free (unofficial?) conversion. I mean, on one hand "gah!" but on the other hand, Proselytization. I tried pitching Donjon to my friends, who were instantly "OH! We *know* d20, and we've tried everything else..." So this might work out.

[MachMoth]

Here is what I think I will do:
First off, I'm going to make a throw back to AD&D with the split proficiency system.  At each level the character gets a feat, they also get a skill-feat.  Skill feats are any feat that boosts a skill, like skill focus.  Some classes can also take bonus feats as skill-feats.

When rolling a skill, a success equates to 1 fact.  On a natural 20, roll again.  A second success is a critical, and gets 2 facts.  If the second is a failure, it is a single fact.  So, it runs just like in combat.  Now, the characters can effect this with new skill-feats.

Skill Focus:
+2 to a skill (same as before)

Skill Specialization:
+1 fact to any success with a skill (not multiplied on a critical)
Req: Skill Focus with that skill

Improved Skill Critical
Increase threat range for a critical by +1 with a skill
Req: Rank of 5+ in that skill

Default skill/save DC's can be set to 10 + CR (or "donjon" level).

When looting, the character rolls d20 + enemy's CR (or the treasure's CR) against the items Purchase DC (which D20 Modern so nicely provides), or against 15 + the characters current wealth modifier (for cash).

I have not playtested this for balance at all.  Some of the DC's may need adjusting.  I'm pretty confident about the feats, though.