Newbie Armor Questions

[Theron]

(If this has been addressed before in a thread, a pointer would be sufficient.)

I've been poring over the rules for the last few days and playing a bit with the combat simulator as well.  One thing I noticed in the combat rules is the (correct) assumption that armor doesn't always cover all of a given  (for instance, in the example, a helm doesn't cover the neck).  Is there any specific information on what regions are covered by the standard armors?  If so, I can't seem to find it.

Also, (and I may be missing this), how would one handle overlapping armors?  For instance, a heavily armored knight with a full helm over a chain coif.  Am I missing something or looking for too much detail?

Thanks in advance!

[Durgil]

First, there really isn't anything in TRoS that covers what areas of the body different types of armour cover.  That is sort of left up to the GM and players.  I think that it is supposed to be however the player envisions their character.  If they are playing a Viking type character, the helmet worn may only cover the top of the head, i.e. the part above the eyebrows and ears.  Personally, I use the HârnMaster armour descriptions, which do specify what locations are covered.  I think I've seen something saying that The Flower of Battle, which is a suppliment for TRoS and will be coming out later, may address this, but I really don't know for sure.

As far as wearing multiple layers goes, like I said, I'm pretty familiar with HârnMaster, which takes into account multiple layers, so I too asked about this problem.  What I was told by Jake was that you should use the best layer on that location.  For example: a knight wearing mail over quilt with a shoulder plate gets hit in the shoulder, the AV should be 5.

[Theron]

Thanks!  HarnMaster was the example I had in my head when I was looking things over.   I surmise the key is for the GM and the player to be on the same page about what areas constitute "covered".

[Brian Leybourne]

Nothing is ever set in stone, and things may change etc (so don't quote me on this), but I am planning to have comprehensive coverage of this kind of info in TFOB, along with a slightly revamped armor system.

Brian.

[Ron Edwards]

Hello,

Viewpoints are definitely going to vary for this issue. Here's how I look at it, and how it's played in my game.

1. Striking zones are rarely, if ever, fully covered by any single piece of armor.

2. Furthermore, most armor (unless it's a relatively small piece like a knee cop) extends into parts of more than one striking zone.

So one man's piece of "chainmail" might cover the abdomen, the groin, the lower ribs on each side, and the upper thighs. Another's might cover the head (but not the face), the neck, and the upper shoulders only. And the leather tunic or whatchamacallit underneath has different seams and "flex spots" for each person as well.

Therefore when you hit an armored opponent, the d6 roll plays a very large part in the effectiveness of the blow. Furthermore, the Accuracy Gift becomes tremendously deadly.

Unsurprisingly, armor's expense and quality is affected not only by the materials used, but also by which zones it can cover and still permit easy movement.

Playing with these ideas in mind makes for a much more interesting game, I think. The operative principle in terms of "in-game consistency" is, Armor is not a personal force-field. The operative principle in terms of the game's design philosophy is, Playing TROS is about making tough choices.

Best,
Ron

[Brian Leybourne]

As an aside also - don't try to marry the Combat Sim's armor system with "real TROS" armor. Armor in the Combat Sim was necessarily simplified a great deal.

Brian.

[Theron]

As an aside also - don't try to marry the Combat Sim's armor system with "real TROS" armor. Armor in the Combat Sim was necessarily simplified a great deal.

Brian.

I started to notice that.  Watching Arming Guy nail the Roman with one really good hit that rendered him useless (his CP stayed right around 4 for the rest of the fight and he couldn't get Initiative away from Arming Guy) but be utterly unable to put him away for good showed me that things were a bit abstracted, but still sold me on the worthiness of the system, overall.

Thanks for the quick replies, folks.  I'm definitely going to play around with TROS some more.

[Swordmagnet]

Don't overthink the armour system, this goes for you too Brian. There will always be a certain level of randomness and luck in combat. This is why I allow players to use Luck to adjust hit location. There's always a chance of hitting a weak spot such as a joint or missing chainmail links. Unless you're a King with unlimited resources your armour will never be perfect and even then armour that covers absolutely would be exhausting to wear.

Just remember to put on your helmet, concussions are a bitch...

[Theron]

Just remember to put on your helmet, concussions are a bitch...

Having suffered a few with the helmet on, I'll second that.

[Salamander]

Just remember to put on your helmet, concussions are a bitch...

Having suffered a few with the helmet on, I'll second that.

I have to agree. If anything always have at least a lid for protection... Most of the players in the campaign have made a point of stating they got a melon guard.