split from played d&d 3.5 thread

[Anthony I]

Tell me some things about the group in general (especially the DM):

1) What are their general reactions to other non-DnD RPG's? Especially ones they HAVEN'T played yet.

I haven't gamed with most of them before this particular game, just the GM and the guy playing the jerk-dwarf.  I know the GM and the guy whose character was assassinated while he wasn't their are pretty open to try other games- but I don't know about the rest.  I recently purchased Paladin and Donjon to try out with my regular group, but was shut down completely, so I'm going to try both of them with this other group and see what happens.

2) How many of them played DnD as their first RPG?

Most of them from what I could tell.  Hell, I cut my teeth on the old D&D that came with the blue and white cover that looked like a kid drew it.

3) What is their average Final Fantasy/Diablo to Tabletop RPG experience ration?

As far as I know, i'm the only one in that group that plays D2 regularly, but the 2 guys I know well all have played many different games, but all the same type.

[MachMoth]

Okay, so its not an exact match, lucky you.  I've been watching a pattern down at my local game shop.  It's not all inclusive, but it's interesting.

The Player's:
a) Play lots of D&D inspired games like Final Fantasy, Diablo, Chrono Trigger, etc. (Don't get me wrong, wonderful games)
b) Shifted from there into D&D
c) Are unwilling to waste time with other, inferior games

These three seem to pop up a lot in gamers with a certain, extreme gamist mindset.  I go down, and I see them playing weekly D&D, and they seem to exibit many of the signs your talking about.  The first two make sense.  They mostly grew up on console RPG's (and Diablo, lots of Diablo) and then discover D&D.  From there, they try and play it like the console games they grew up with (and Diablo, still lots of Diablo).  The third still has me a little baffled.  My best guess is that no other RPG has that same gamist/console(/Diablo) feel as D&D, and thus they are unwilling to actually branch into real roleplaying, content with videogaming with dice.  None of them care about the plot or characters.  They aren't interested in what "would really happen."  They are only interested in amassing power, killin' stuff, more amassing power, and then wonder why the game gets boring, blaming the DM.  When something challenges them, they are interested.  But its hard to challenge them when they keep amassing power & killin' stuff.

I saw this extensively in one of my groups, and I still can't get half of them out of D20.  But, I can see massive narrative tendancies.  They would rather their character be cool, then be challenged.  They get frustrated, when the rules don't let them do off-the-wall stuff.  They aren't gamists at all, but believe that that's what a roleplaying game is.  It's been a long road getting this far, but we're almost there.  I'm at the point as a GM now, that I can tug anyone of their strings, when ever I want.  In the last campaign, I had built up such hatred in them for a single bad guy they hadn't even met, that when given the chance to go after him, they dove for it, ignoring any sign of trouble it lead them into.  Turned out he was just a pawn.  They still talk about him.

[Bankuei]

Hi Machmoth,

Let's not get too assuming about what "real roleplaying" is about.  I think that's an empty term loaded to just put people down.  Rune(hack and slash, and proud of it) is just as much a valid roleplaying experience as, say, Nobilis.  

What may be of more use to you personally is to seek out people who would be more interested in the sorts of games that you do.  No one has to be on a mission to "convert the masses and show them the light".  If your friends get tired of D&D, they can come check out the other games you'll have going on, and decide for themselves what they care for.

It's the "gamer superiority" attitude from anywhere and everywhere("D20 Rules!" "Roleplaying vs. roll-playing" etc.) that shuts down  real discussion.

Chris

[MachMoth]

Much apologies,
I didn't mean to start injecting my personal views in.  To me gamism is a spice to be used lightly, and it's sometimes hard to see the other way.

As for my group, I'm in no way trying to play "holy savior."  I've played D&D with this group for, oh, 6 years now, and DM'ed half or so of that.  I've learned what makes them tick, and I can see massive narrative tendancies in them.  They would rather make their character look cool, or do wicked stunts, then amass power and be challenged.  They get frustrated when the rules hinder them from doing something "in character."  But, they play the same way anyways, because that's the way it's "suppose to be," or because that's how its done in final fantasy.  One DM will even fudge a die roll, if the description sounds cool.  I'm not trying to change them.  I'm trying to give them what they have been hinting at (and what I have been more than hinting at) for years.  But, a few are still feeling the "suppose to be" syndrome.

[David Chunn]

My experience with the guys who play lots of Diablo and D&D and hang around the game shop is this:  If they played some other, possibly cool, game (gamist or otherwise), their buddies at the game shop wouldn't know the lingo.  They couldn't sit around and talk about +5 holy avengers, turning undead, etc.  I think it's easy to underestimate this social dynamic.

This is in addition to all the other stuff you mentioned.