Humakt, Rashoran, and justice (split from rape/Glorantha)

[Jane]

Some good points from Ron, I'm replying here with those in mind.

jane was refering to the fact that in our game the subcult does not originate amongst the heortlings, and that her character and several of the other player heroes are not heortlings. this came up earlier in the discussion, when we were also talking about the universality vs regional variation of humakt.

Fairy nuff, I missed that distinction since I didn't realise the subcult was non-heortling. Where is it from?

This is a good question, and one we're still trying to answer ourselves. We've got links to the subcult write-up further up this topic in any case, but to summarise: Hereward was one of the guys who told Arkat about Humakt. We don't know where he came from, but we suspect somewhere further west. And the version of Humakt he worshipped retained his Wind powers, and has an obsession with Truth.  We now know that there is also a Carmanian version of his hero-cult.

I don't see why being humakti would cause someone's attitude in this respect to be different from the norm.

Nor do I. All that was originally said was that our particular hero-band had recently concluded that we are against slavery. We're not even typical for Herewardi Humakti, never mind about any other sort. And the conclusion even for us seems to have been reached by one person (my character, in fact) doing some deductions from a myth we'd just been told, and everyone else following along.

[Ian Cooper]

Ron comments that:

No myth or myth-system in Glorantha can withstand what's happening in the setting. I think one can see the fault lines in both Orlanthi and Solar culture cracking apart already; finding such gaps and cracks is where the system of the game really shines in the long-term. For me, anyway, scenario creation is all about bringing this into the forefront of everyone's attention.

and Mark notes, somewhat cryptically from the Firebull campaign that

The cause is just - Defeat the Lunar Invaders and return the true heir of Sartar to the throne.

However a series of choices have been made which would be seen as decidely iffy by certain outside parties and even those with the same aims may be disturbed by them.

Without going into too many details that are not know to everyone in the game - Mark is talking to events that exemplify just the kind of conflict that I think Ron is talking about.

Bruce not sure if you are a Forge regular, but you might want to back out from learning things your character does not now...

Heortling society says that Secret Murder is a crime, but assasination is a valuable tool for rebels fighting a guerilla war. We were asked by the rebellion to kill an Orlanthi traitor who had been passing information to the Empire. The question then became which was greater our loyalty to the rebel cause, or our adherence to the taboos of wider society.  

Out of such a moral dilemna was born our hero band, which formed around the core of the philosophy we adopted in reaction to such a problem. Our (public) message is that the old world is ending and taboos will need to be broken to forge the new world as we want it. But of course this 'revelation' goes much deeper for many of the characters who have begun to question whether the new world may not be quicker ushered in by actively defying society's taboos.

Indeed OiD makes anumber of statements about Orlanthi Total War and their willingness to use weapons like disease when waging it - that seem in conflict with social norms. This raised a number of fan eyebrows and some debate when it appeared. Great. They demonstrate an easy crack to wedge dilemna into and split the story open. (I would suggest that any area that causes fan flamewars is usually ripe for such scenarios from Humakti attitudes through Elmal/Yelmalio to ducks, yes ducks. These conflicts are built in to the setting, and the Hero Wars is the chance to have in-game fun with them.)

This attitude has now led us down the path of suggesting that the clan elects a sacrificial ruler in the Tarshite way, to renew the land...

I think that this is exactly what Ron is getting at. The Hero Wars are about knowing what the norms are and then challenging them for their contradictions.










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[simon_hibbs]

Interestign discussion. I'm sorry if I went off at a bit of a tangent on the slavery thing, but I've been thinking about it a bit recently. I've half decided that if I get to pay HQ again, and if the concept fist the game, I'd be interested in playing a slave trader character.

Perhaps it comes from watching Gladiator too many times, but it seems to me that they fill an important ecomonic and social niche in ancient society. Some people were even willing to sell themselves into slavery rather than starve to death, and anyway there's a log and fine tradition of slave owning in Gloranthan gaming going all the way back to Biturian Varosh.

Angling back on topic, of course Ron is absolutely right that the Hero wars are all about re-examining social norms and looking for new answers to old questions to save the world. Either that, or all this re-examining and looking for new answers is actualy destroying the world. Actualy it's quite hard to tell which, but certainly standing on the sidelines simply isn't an option.


Simon Hibbs

[Ian Cooper]

Interestign discussion. I'm sorry if I went off at a bit of a tangent on the slavery thing,

Off topic for Humakti maybe, but IMO the contradictions in Heortling society in attitudes to slavery are right on-topic for the idea of examining the contradictions and conflicts in society. Consider the  contrast between the Exiles and say the Hendrieki (the Orlanthi with a cult of freedom who free slaves). Both Orlanthi, but both with different attitudes to the practice and a ripe potential source of conflict. And different again in their concept of thralldom to the Lunar idea of slavery. In fact the Lunars in turn have a conflict of sorts between their "We Are All Us" and slavery. For a slaver character a game set in the Hero Wars might ask the player to peer into these cracks.