[Bad Muthas] Car chase mechanics & 3D

[Dregg]

Hello,
I'm fairly new to the list and wanted to say hello before I toss out my thoughts and question.

I am currently working on a Blaxploitaion/70 Action RPG, and one of the things I have been toying with is decent car chase mechanics.  In any 70's action movie or TV cop show the car chase was a staple, but in most game systems (save Feng Shui) most car combat systems are very dull ::roll dice/shoot Roll dice/Drive::
Now i was thinking of creating a Car chase/combat system that would be
1. Improv: Something where the initiative winner had some control over terrain
2. Cinematic luck use: Kind of a Luck point system to change the course of the plot
and
3. 3d Terrain: To be used as part of the mechanic.

Number 3 is the one that is bugging me. Adding 3D terrain to the mechanic then would make it very wargame, would'nt it?
Has anyone else had luck with using miniatures esc rules with an RPG?
Mayhaps I should put the 3d terrain as an optional rule, or should I just leave it out?

[contracycle]

Why do you want the 3d terrain?  In your eyes, what would be lost by ditching it?

I would say that at a simply pragmatic level, it raises a lot of practical problems for players and probably demans quite a lot of space.  It may also require additional skills or purchases, which raise the bar of entry.

[Mike Holmes]

Have you seen the chase mechanic from the old James Bond game? Many games of late would make a car chase one long contest. You might want to think about incorporating some of the mechanics in games like Hero Quest.

Mike

[Dregg]

Why do you want the 3d terrain?  In your eyes, what would be lost by ditching it?

I would say that at a simply pragmatic level, it raises a lot of practical problems for players and probably demans quite a lot of space.  It may also require additional skills or purchases, which raise the bar of entry.

Space was an issue I had not concidered, but I was picturing something along the lines of Car Wars, but adding the road as one goes along, and allowing players to be able to change the road with Cinematic Points, and special rolls.
It is problably over complicated, even moreso that I'm shooting for something free style.

[Dregg]

Have you seen the chase mechanic from the old James Bond game? Many games of late would make a car chase one long contest. You might want to think about incorporating some of the mechanics in games like Hero Quest.

Mike

Wow I have not looked at that game in a while, it's back in California... mayhaps I'll have to send for it.
What in Heroquest should I look for? I have the book, just never bothered to read it...

[Mike Holmes]

Look for Extended Conflicts. Quite abstracted, so it won't work with a 3D layout at all if you're still thinking that way. But it would do chases well, IMO. So well, in fact that I'm going to put a chase in next time I play just to see how it goes.

Mike

[Daniel Solis]

I rather like the guidelines for running car chases for Unknown Armies, even if they're still essentially an extended contest using the basic task resolution system.

Car chases are measured in lengths. If you're being chased, you want to increase the lengths between you and the chaser. If you are the chaser, you want to decrease the number of lengths, ultimately to zero. Without getting into details of the system itself, the chased gets a minimum of two or three lengths as a headstart. The chase scene proceeds with opponents making drive rolls. Successes increase/decrease one length. Crits increase/decrease two lengths. Botches have the opposite effect as crits.

If you run into a hazard, you make a drive check. Failure makes you drop back a length. Success means you get past it safely.

After having successfully made your drive check for the current round, you can choose to perform a risk. ("I run a red light." "I jump my motorbike onto the sidewalk.") If the GM accepts your risk, make a drive roll. Success or failure increases/decreases a length. Crits or botches increase/decrease two lengths.

Instead of a risk, you can perform an insane risk at a significant penalty. If you succeed, increase/decrease five lengths. If you fail, you crash, wreck the vehicle, you're out of the chase and suffer car crash damage.

Passengers shooting from the car roll normally if the cars are at zero lengths. Each length more than that increases the penalty an equal amount. Crits result in shooting the driver. Really good successes result in shooting a passenger. Good successes result in cosmetic damage only. Mediocre successes result in no damage but the driver must make a hazard roll.

There's some other stuff, but I've probably rambled on too long anyway. I'm not entirely sure I'm remembering this stuff correctly either, so don't quote me on it. Hope it helps give you an idea of how it's been done before and inspires you in your own endeavors.

[Luke]

Ok, from my standpoint, we need to deconstruct the car chase!

we need to look at what elements are present in the cinematic narrative of the car chase and then we need to look at what purpose the car chase serves in the game.

As far as I remember we have:
The Car.
Does the quality or type of car matter in your game?

The Driver.
Does skill come into play? Are PC drivers just better than NPC drivers?

The Road.
The place where the rubber burns. Now, you've already stated you want a "3d" mechanic involved. So you see to want the road to play a major part of this.

Trucks, Pedestrians and Fruit Carts.
This is the stuff in the roads that gets in the way of the cars and causes them to either come to a stop or wreck.

Machine Guns and Rocket Launchers.
This is the stuff that cars and drivers (and sometimes roadside pedestrians) throw at cars in order to kill their driver, stop their progress or destroy the car.

So how are these elements represented in your current system?
I have some interesting ideas for abstract and concrete mechanics, but i need to know what kind of dice we're working with and what our margin of success/failure is.

hee hee!
-L

[Dregg]

Ok, from my standpoint, we need to deconstruct the car chase!


As far as I remember we have:
The Car.
Does the quality or type of car matter in your game?

Well the cars are broken dow to the generics, Cop car, Muscle Car, Pimp Mobile, Big Rig... with these templates you can assign any period car type or model (I'm a Mopar fan myself). Each type will have a set of stats that will be important to the chase.

The Driver.
Does skill come into play? Are PC drivers just better than NPC drivers?

Well PC drivers will be better than say the drivers who were meant to crash and burn. The system as stands so far allows even the humble NPC to do some damage, but there will be PC's/ "The Man's (GM) PC's and then your standard mook like thing.

The Road.
The place where the rubber burns. Now, you've already stated you want a "3d" mechanic involved. So you see to want the road to play a major part of this.

I'm going to shy away from this as a major mechanic, but will problably intergrate it into a optional ruling. Road is important in 70's car chases, watch any Starsky and Hutch episone or the Movie Bullet. Need hills and draw bridges. being from San Francisco I know hills very well.

Trucks, Pedestrians and Fruit Carts.
This is the stuff in the roads that gets in the way of the cars and causes them to either come to a stop or wreck.

Already built into a mechanic  used to hider the other drivers, when ever a car get the "Lead" he/she will get to use something called Windfall, Opportunity, or tragedy. This allows for cool hollywood chase twists, and even having the tables turned on the Lead car.

Machine Guns and Rocket Launchers.
This is the stuff that cars and drivers (and sometimes roadside pedestrians) throw at cars in order to kill their driver, stop their progress or destroy the car.

Working that out now... even tonight as I type

So how are these elements represented in your current system?
I have some interesting ideas for abstract and concrete mechanics, but i need to know what kind of dice we're working with and what our margin of success/failure is.

I would love to hear what you have in mind...
Trying to think of my schedule... would you like to take a gander at the car chase rules?

Dregg

[Daniel Solis]

Slightly OT: I didn't think another genre would warrant the GM being called "the Man" aside from punk, but lo and behold, it's probably even more fitting for this game. :) Very nice.

[Dregg]

Slightly OT: I didn't think another genre would warrant the GM being called "the Man" aside from punk, but lo and behold, it's probably even more fitting for this game. :) Very nice.

Thank you =)

I honestly did not know you used that convention, hope you don't mind shareing it with BM...

The Punk Rock 70's and 80's was a great time (it was my teen years)

[Daniel Solis]

Nah, don't worry about it at all. If it works, it works. :)

[Malechi]

for my money you can't beat the Spycraft (d20) Chase rules it works for just about any kind of chase from Car vs Car, Car vs Chopper, Foot vs Foot, Bike vs Bike..whatever.  Adapting it wouldn't be too hard I think.  Check it out.  Also there are some cheat cards available on http://www.modus-operandi.co.uk I think.

Jason