Gotta love the Hef

[Krammer]

Recently, someone in my gaming group made a character that was a Hef.... He argued that hem could use it because it was part Gol, which are partially civilized.
  The rest of us argued that the simple fact that he was still a hef made him too savage and wild to be a playable character. It was even more unrealistic that our party consisted of people with spiritual attributes revolving around good. By all means, it was an argument that we could have easily settled ourselves, but he would not give up defending his side.
  So, if I could get anybody else's opinion, perhaps we could get him to realize the problem with his character.

[Jake Norwood]

This is actually a really excellent topic. Why? Because it has to do with play-goals (evident in SAs) and other issues of so-called "Social Contract."

The question is, "why?" What makes him want to play this character. I don't know enough about your group to evaluate his answers in reply to your gaming style, but I can for mine.

I'm into "blood opera." I like bloody-as-hell games with a little bit of adolescent power fantasy hidden under a lot of deep drama. Said drama almost invariable revolves around issues of loyalty, humanity, and religion. For me, TROS play is about a player's and a character's priorities. If all of us have agreed that we want to focus on being "heroes" and be "good," because that what our SAs point to, then the entire group needs to either adjust or find a way to play off of that so that all have fun.

Frex:
This guy wants to play a Hef because they're big and bad and destroy stuff all the time, and because unlike Gol they're into human chicks. We're looking at a lot of kewl powerz issues here. If that gets in the way of the group's fun, it's bad. Tell him as much.

Or...

This guy thinks that a hef who wants to change or reform, having had a deeply moving experience with a human maiden would be a fun challenge. He wants to be good, too, but his inner nature is getting in the way. The other players are willing to "work" with this, so you move on.

Or...

The other players are fine with it, but acknowledge that it wouldn't work with their characters. Now you run the two sides simultaneously in a connected story, but the Hef isn't in the party (I'm assuming that you play in a "party" or other PC-group format). At some point--perhaps the climax of the story--the Hef and the party must come into contact, resulting in some kind of alliance or in one side killing the other. Is this arrangement not only acceptable to your group, but enthusiastically embraced? If so, this might be a good thing.

What's really important here are the play goals of the group, and how they're willing to comprimise and play off each other. From the sound of it the Hef character isn't gelling here. Find out why this guy wants to be a Hef, and offer other alternatives that work better with others. Gaming is, in the end, a group activity.

Jake

[Brian Leybourne]

Just make sure that when he does finally "get the girl" you use the new special rules for such in the upcoming suppliment "The flower of sex" (or was that "The sex of steel"?). Oh well, whichever. In either case, you should only let him play a hef that was the result of a hef breeding with a field mouse. He could be called Squeeksquish.

Sorry, in an odd mood today. Being out of work and having writers block will do that.

p.s. Hef are not part Gol unless Daddy Hef got really friendly with Mummy Gol, if you know what I mean. Otherwise, they're both just trollspawn.

Brian.

[Krammer]

First, I will answer Jakes reply thing:

  I think of all the options you gave, I think the one he fits under would be the one about being really big and strong. You see, this guy has what I call the "smash syndrome" where he likes to make powerful characters (of course, they all die in very bloody ways, within a few weeks after creation) I don't think he had the part about Hef liking human chicks in mind when he made the character, but it wouldn't be below him. I think that some of the other players were fine with it (but only a couple) and the rest really didn't like the idea of being in a party with a Hef. We were actually pretty lucky that one of our guys wasn't there when the Hef played, because one of his SA's was:  Faith- All Hef are abominations before the gods.
   Yeah, there would have been some big time conflict there.

Now i will comment on what Brian said:

     When, and where do I get this "the sex of steel" .. . . jk
  As for the papa hef and mama gol, I suppose that is how it happened, but I prefer not to think about it. ewww.....
    The most ridiculous part was that he thought he could have race as a priority C, because he was a 'halfling'. Half Hef, half Gol, right? No. It wouldn't work because all hef are, in a way, halflings, but far more powerful than anything you could get with C.....


  Okay, im done ranting.

[Ingenious]

Now now Brian, let's not cross-breed the animals and make this into some deeply complicated thing like DND races can get...

And Jake, a little conflict between players never hurts a story that much.
In the current game I am in, the fugutive/priest I was hired to protect short-changed me on the amount of money I was to be paid, so I thought about doing a double-cross and turning him in to the authorities... (since the reward was 10 times that which he paid me) This however, never materialized once I found out that he was framed, or so I was told..

However, I would not advise(obviously) a PC who would not work well with the party... so maybe this guy can be worked out to where he is a were-hef, if that makes sense... he can turn into a hef with strength depending on the phases of the moon.. or he can be a hef at night regardless of lunar activity..

This resulting compromise I beleive, works best to the GM, the other players, and the guy that wants to play the hef. While he gets to play a hef and have the conflicted view of hef and human, he also gets to cooperate with the PC's in the story in human form, and the GM can work this into his story easier than a full-time hef can be worked in.

So that's your win-win-win situation.. at least in my mind.

-Ingenious

[Jake Norwood]

And Jake, a little conflict between players never hurts a story that much.

A little conflict between characters is, in fact, a great thing. Any kind of actual conflict between players--such that someone isn't have a good time--is a bad thing, IMO.

Jake

[Rico]

Let me also comment on this guy. He is all about stats, that's it. No story with any of his characters except for his most recent one which he stole from a tv show. He always dies because he doesn't care about his characters and nobody else does either so he always dies. When We were arguing about his hef character I said that it would be impossible to have any spiritual points at all because he is a hef and not just a hef a hef slash Gol which is makes an unintelligent character. When I told him this he just said 'So!?'. I was outraged by this, how can you make a character with no story or spiritual part of him. What do we do about people like this? Solving this would also solve the hef character problem as well.

[toli]

I'd let him play the hef...and then kill him off quickly...

[Ingenious]

Well, toli is wrong in his advice given that it isnt really a solution to the problem at hand.

If you got this guy to play a were-hef where he's human during the day and hef during the night, and his strength increased or decreased with the phases of the moon, he would be happy with his stat-perfecting attempt at a game breaking character. However, making him play his human side actively engages him in the story as well as his participation with the group... and have him be a WEAKLING of a human... maybe. It also frees up the possiblity of him having SA's that can gel with the story, given that your job as GM is to guide him into that. If he is still completely unwilling to be part of the story or to help the group or socialize with them and he's just a problem... then I have no clue for the solution to that problem, and most likely Jake can.

Try pitching that idea to him, and see what he says.
If he just wants to be an attempted game-breaker and not want to participate with the storyline or the group.. then PUT YOUR DAMNED FOOT DOWN AND SAY NO! ....(you also have a duty to the other people in this)
Sometimes players need a reality check my their wiser, more seasoned friends that KNOW the impact their character is going to have, and for him to go without a care in the world if his character dies.. what fun is that for him? Ask him that. If he just says that 'a strong character makes an impressive character that really can do alot of damage' then that is silly. At that point I might be a bit off-kilter enough to show him how truly vulnerable his characters are with the TROS system by showing him that even his STRONGEST of characters will fall with a single shot from an archer, or a single blow to the head... etc.

Just some thoughts. (sorry for being a bit angry, I just took my section tests in college right now)

-Ingenious

[Ben]

Well, toli is wrong in his advice given that it isnt really a solution to the problem at hand.

Toli's advice is a very workable solution if he isn't refering to the character.

[Krammer]

Wow, thanks for all the feed back.

Toli: Well, when we let him use the Hef character, he did end up dying . .. . but it was a fair death. both combatants chose attack, and in the reflex roll, both hits landed at the same time. Both died. it was pretty bloody.....

Jake: The problem is, we already have enough conflict in our party.  There is an elf in our party that is constantly having conflict with my Dwarf character. For a while the conflicts were lessening, but then a bunch of wierd stuff happened and the conflicts were back up again. I'd explain it all, but it would take a while, so I'll save it for later. I'm just glad he got over the phase were he would try to cut off my beard in my sleep.....  but I do agree, some conflict is very good.

Ben: if only it weren't illegal . . . .

Rico: I agree with everything you say. .. . btw, are we playing your next scenario tomorrow?

Ingenious: I think that your idea of having him be a were-hef could be an interesting idea. It might be hard to work out, because we may rarely be playing on the right phases of the moon (well I guess moon would be plural in weyrth, so the full moon could be out quite frequently)
 As for what you said about the strongest of characters dying in a single blow, that is just how it happened. A very greusome single blow. Overall, it was a very violent scenario. The whole campaign itself was probably the most brutal one we've ever played.....

Well, thankyou, everyone, for your opinions.

[Krammer]

Wow, thanks for all the feed back.

Toli: Well, when we let him use the Hef character, he did end up dying . .. . but it was a fair death. both combatants chose attack, and in the reflex roll, both hits landed at the same time. Both died. it was pretty bloody.....

Jake: The problem is, we already have enough conflict in our party.  There is an elf in our party that is constantly having conflict with my Dwarf character. For a while the conflicts were lessening, but then a bunch of wierd stuff happened and the conflicts were back up again. I'd explain it all, but it would take a while, so I'll save it for later. I'm just glad he got over the phase were he would try to cut off my beard in my sleep.....  but I do agree, some conflict is very good.

Ben: if only it weren't illegal . . . .

Rico: I agree with everything you say. .. . btw, are we playing your next scenario tomorrow?

Ingenious: I think that your idea of having him be a were-hef could be an interesting idea. It might be hard to work out, because we may rarely be playing on the right phases of the moon (well I guess moon would be plural in weyrth, so the full moon could be out quite frequently)
 As for what you said about the strongest of characters dying in a single blow, that is just how it happened. A very greusome single blow. Overall, it was a very violent scenario. The whole campaign itself was probably the most brutal one we've ever played.....

Well, thankyou, everyone, for your opinions.

[Krammer]

umm, I don't know how my reply was posted twice..... odd.

[Ingenious]

Well, it's easy if he can be a hef at night when the sun sets too you know, on a nightly basis rather. (In case he wants to create yet another hef character)((or for that matter anyone else does)). And for that to be the case, say that is the side effect of the hef's pursuit of beautiful human maidens... and the resultant half-breed.... *shudders at mental imagery*
and the mixing of human and magical genes? *shrug*

Just some further thoughts.
-Ingenious

[Krammer]

well, ingenious, I think the idea of beign a hef by night could work out. THe only problem is: that is very similar to the way a character I am introducing to my group in a week or so is. of course, he isn't a hef by night, but i wont get into that. if you'll look at my character idea post, you'll see what I am talking about.