Greetings and Campaign Notes....

[doubtofbuddha]

Which one of us? ;)


Jesse D.

[doubtofbuddha]

Alright, so I have my initial relationship map which will be put to good use this evening. :) I also spent a good portion of the game working on characters and ideas the relationship map and collection of bangs.

Does it appear that I have the hang of it or am I asking the wrong sorts of questions here?

Bezarando, Liturgist of Saint Gerlant
A crusader, without a crusade Bezarando grew up on the streets of Rhigos, poor and destitute. Eventually he was adopted into the Rokari Church of Rhigos where he was trained to be a church foot soldier and, when he came of age, a liturgist of the order of Saint Gerlant. Now he spends his days preaching, attempting to convert the people to the onte true faith. He has been unsuccessful thus far, but his eyes turn to the north and the potential of a crusade against the evil forces of the Lunar Empire.
Appearence: Fair-faced and young, Bezandro has long, brown hair and the dusky skin common among the inhabitants of Esrolia. He would be pleasing to one of the young priestesses of Rhigos if not for his faith.
Esrolian 17 (Esrolian Customs, Esrolian Geography, Find Cooperative Solution, Speak Esrolian)
Ordinary Foot Soldier 17 (Army Regulations, Identify Foe, Make Camp, March, Scan For Danger, Scouting, Templar Mass Combat, Templar Traditions)
Liturgist of the Order of St. Gerlant 17 (Broadsword Fighting, Know Saint Gerlant, Rule of Saint Gerlant, Venerate Saint Gerlant)
Abilities: Attractive 15, Broadsword and Shield Fighting 5w, Convert People to the One True Faith 20, Doctrine of Rokari Church 19, Grew Up On The Streets 15, Preach 8w, Resist Temptation 1w, Urban Survival 19, Venerate Makan 5w
Personality: Devout 3w, Disciplined 17, Fanatic 20, Fear Dragons 17, Obedient 18, Hate Chaos 19, Hate the Lunar Empire 18
Equipment: broadword(+3), chain mail and shield(+4), the Rule of Law, the Theoblanc PApers
Relationships: Member of Houshold of of Great Fire 17, Members of Rokari Church of Rhigos 2w
Magic*: The Abiding Book 18, The Rule of Law 20, The Life of Saint Gerlant the Pure 17, Miracles of the Saints, Volume IV 17 (Burn Away Pagan Magic, Burn Pagan, Burn Wound Closed, Commanding Shout, Defend Superior Officer, Flaming Sword, Heal Me Now, Ignite Kindling, Keep Me Warm, Protect Him, Rally Followers, Surprise Ghost, Sword Cutting)
* Concentrated
Connections: Wants to do something about Neara, Knows Luc van Baliif from services, will encounter CWDBG while preaching; EFS will be sent to "deal" with him.


Leik, Potential Kilted Duelist of Humakt (Orand's Sidekick)
Leik is a young warrior dedicated to becoming a member of the Kilted Duelists of Humakt. He has completed all of the initiation requirements save for that of defeating a worthy opponent in an honorable duel. So now he wanders the streets of Rhigos with his mentor, Orand, looking for such a foe.
Warrior 17
Sidekick Abilities: Hot-Headed 20, Resist Feminine Influence 18, Sword Fighting 7w

Orand, Leik's Mentor
Orand hates women, and always has. He sees their focus on peace as being a sign of weakness and their warriors as aberrations, attempting to become something that should rightfully only be dealt with by men. He joined the Kilted Duelists as a means to express his discontent and to practice his sword-fighting skills and find some sort of cause to believe in. He found it and, though some of the members do not share his views, he has been slowly converting the hero band over to his views. Soon he will have the influence needed to bring about a collapse of the matriarchy and a rise of men to power...For now though he is merely training new members of the organization and making sure that their young minds share his views.
Appearence: A big, strong male with a brown speckled-with gray beard and a completely shaved head. He has a tattoo of Humakt's rune on his forehead and each of his forearms. He wears a short-sleeved shirt with silver armbands on either arm, immediately below his tattoos.
Esrolian 17 (Esrolian Customs, Esrolian Geography, Find Cooperative Solution, Speak Esrolian, Urban Survival)
Warrior 17 (Endurance, Guard Camp, Know Esrolian Tactics, Know Local Area, Listen, Spear and Shield Fighting, Dagger Throwing, Recognize Fighting Style, Recognize Foe, Ride, Scout, Urban Group Fighting)
Initiate of Humakt 17 (Geas: Never refuse a challange to one-on-one combat; Craft Weapon, Dagger Fighting, Mythology of Humakt, Sword Fighting)
Abilities: Detect Lie 2w, Force Honesty Through Pain 19, Greatsword Fighting 10w, Intimidating Glare 3w, Lead Through Example 4w, Light Sleeper 3w, Recognize Fighting Style 4w, Strong 18, Unarmed Combat 20
Personality: Bloodthirsty 1w, Brave 17, Determined 19, Fear Dragons 17, Grim 4w, Hates Women 15w, Honorable 20
Equipment: Greatsword (+5), Scale Armor (+3)
Relationships: Black Sheep of Family 17, Despise Ancestors 17, Loyal to the Grand Duelist of the Kilted Duelists 2w, Initiate of Humakt 17, Member of Kilted Duelists of Humakt 10w
Followers: Leik, sidekick (see above)
Magic: Combat 20, Death 17, Honor 17; Regains 1 AP each turn.

Connections: Will encourage his student to challenge either the EFS or the CWDBG to a duel. If his student loses he will swear vengeance and come back to challenge them at a later date.

Dorsha
Dorsha is a librarian and scholar of the Temple of Epikhor in Rhigos. She considers herself to be Rhigos's foremost expert on Caladraland and is always seeking the knowledge to become the foremost expert in Esrolia. She would very much like to go on an expedition to visit its major sites and build a base of knowledge of her own, but she realizes that it would probably be much to dangerous, so instead she just seeks to acquire the works and tales of people who have visited the nation themselves.
Appearance: A bookish women in her mid-thirties, wearing a long gray robe with a pen stuck behind her ear and carrying multiple books. Her hair is a mess.
Esrolian 17 (Esrolian Customs, Esrolian Geography, Find Cooperative Solution, Speak Esrolian, Urban Survival)
Scholar 17 (History, Know Customs of Strangers, Know Trivia, Make Writing Materials,  Read Esrolian, Speak Caladran, Write Esrolian)
Initiate of Epikhor the Librarian 17 (Research Ancient Knowledge, Teach)  
Abilities: Caladran Customs 18, Caladran Geography 20, Caladran History 4w, Find Books in Library 5w, Memorize Text 20, Mythology of Epikhor 5w, Mythology of Caladran Pantheon 4w, Near-Sighted 13, Read For Hours 16, Read Caladran 17, Write Caladran 17
Pesonality: Authorative 1w, Curious 19, Fear Dragons 17, Peaceful 20, Pompous 18
Equipment: Caladran Texts (+3), Wealth 20
Relationships: Curious About Ancestors 17, Initiate of Epikhor the Librarian 4w, Loves Family 18, Librarian of Great Temple of Epikhor in Rhigos 4w;
Magic*: Knowledge 2w, Librarian 1w, Literacy 17, Soul Vision 20
* Concentrated
Connections: She will catch the ES summoning his "hero"


<bBANGS!

The Tomb
There will be two concurrent extended contests.
One is the knowledge needed to get past the dungeon's various traps and dangers.
The other is the physical abilities needed to get past the traps and dangers.
The Dungeons has the following statistics:
Physical Challenges: 5w
Appropriate Abilities: Overcome Traps, Agile (-5), Running (-5)
Typical Modifers and Augments: Open Lock, Perceptive, Scan For Danger
Mental Challenges: 20
Appropriate Abilities: Mythology of Earth Pantheon, Mythology of Ernalda, Esrolian History (-5), History (-10)
Augments:  Esrolian Customs, Read Esrolian, Relationship with Ancestors (-10)

Sum the totals of the extended contests.  
Critical Success: The parties involved get through in record time, utterly avoiding the dangers and traps.
Any other success: Successfully makes it through.
Marginal Failure: The parties involved each get a Hurt, and are forced to flee by arriving guards.
Minor Failure: The parties involved each get an Injury and 1/2 captured by arriving guards.
Major Failure: The parties involved each get a Injury and are captured by arriving guards.
Complete Failure: The parties involved each get an Impairment and are captured by arriving guards.

The Duel
The CWDBG is waling through the city minding her own business when a pair of armed and armored men with large swords and kilts approach her. Orand and Leik are looking for a suitable opponent for Leik to prove his dueling skills on, and Orand has decided that the female foreigner is a perfect target. Leik begins taunting the CWDBG and eventually challenges her to a duel. What does the CDBG do? Does she accept the duel and embrace her previous murderous ways or does she find a way to talk him down?

Caught!
The ES is experimenting with summoning his "mythic hero" in the library of Epikhor when Dorsha happens on to him. The "mythic hero" disappears when she arrives and Dorsha begins questioning him. What does the ES tell her about his abilities? If so is he willing to get over his timid nature and his desire for secrecy and privacy in exchange for the oppurtunity to get their help in learning about and controlling his abilities?

The Hatchetman
Naera approaches the EFS with the problem of a street preacher who has been raising dissent against the Lunar Empire, thus causing popular opinion to flower against it. She wants the EFS to deal with it. She warns her that the preacher is popular and she should avoid killing him as that might make him a martyr. It would be better to instead, either to change his views, or discredit him to his followers. Does the EFS do this? Does she continue serving as Naera's hatchet-woman or does find her own way?

The Street Preacher
If Neara chooses to take out the Street Preacher she has little difficulty finding him. He is surrounded by adoring listeners who seem to be eager to listen to the words he preaches. How does she remove the threat that he presents? Does she kill him or find another way to discredit him? If she does kill him how does she avoid making him a martyr?


Also, how do I go about working things like down time, where they can spend hero points to do things off screen, and such.

You mentioned in your previous post about how that the idea you are going to play your character forever (or until she dies) should be done away with in this style of game. Any suggestions on how to convince the players that said idea is a good one? :)

Jesse Dean

[doubtofbuddha]

Yeah so we finished session 2 and ended it with a pretty long discussion on the game so far and the player complaints about it.

Some issues brought up:
The general consensus was that the group needed to have more involvement with each other. The amount of downtime between when the individual characters were doing stuff was taking too long, and everyone had more fun when they were interacting with the other player characters.

There were a few complaints about the system too. For players who were used to playing more typical d20 Fantasy, they felt they didn't have much of a sense of accomplishment from getting a few hero points that they did from getting a few experience points and then going up a level. I pointed that over the course of the two sessions they acquired 8 hero points but one player said it didn't feel quite the same as acquiring a few hundred to a thousand experience points.

Other people complained about the seeming lack of control that they had over the characters based on the use of personality traits and interaction skills to deal with others. I pointed out that just like certain characters would be more comptent with fighting than others and that was expressed in the system than some characters would be more influential an have more interaction ability than other characters and that should also be represented in the game world.  She said she saw my point but that she thought doing it that way was less fun.

We had a few other people complain at the general lack of a sense of accomplishment that came from accomplishing the scenes. I think primarily because they are at least partially used to dealing with gamist rewards. One of the players talked about how it was great to be working towards long-term goals but he wanted his, to put in analogical form, his "+3 sword."  He didn't think the ability to forge relationships with local factions and thus establish his power base was enough, apparently.

I told them I would try to move them towards more interaction based scenes, and one of the players even suggested a few (I assume these are what you would call "kickers"). She also talked about taking more control from the players in order to move things along (which I pointed out I was doing and gave examples, but yeah....)

So we are going to try out a few more sessions of this and decide whether to continue with this particular campaign or not.

If they chose that they want to end it then I am probably going to quit gaming entirely as it appeared to me, from our discussion, that what they want from gaming is different from what I want. I understand where they are coming from and I see what they want as being valid, its just not what "I" want.  And if my player circle doesn't want the same kind of game as I want than I don't particularly want to game anymore as it would be a waste of my time and theirs. I am tired of d20 and similar games. I have been playing them for 12 years, and want something different. Apparently they still like what they are getting from it (none of the players has had more than a year of total game-time).

So bleah....

[doubtofbuddha]

Also, I started a thread in my group's live journal community on this so they could summarize what their complaints were in case I missed them:

http://www.livejournal.com/community/worldsoftuerny/86124.html

Oh and this:

http://www.livejournal.com/community/worldsoftuerny/86516.html

[Valamir]

If they chose that they want to end it then I am probably going to quit gaming entirely as it appeared to me, from our discussion, that what they want from gaming is different from what I want. I understand where they are coming from and I see what they want as being valid, its just not what "I" want. And if my player circle doesn't want the same kind of game as I want than I don't particularly want to game anymore as it would be a waste of my time and theirs. I am tired of d20 and similar games. I have been playing them for 12 years, and want something different. Apparently they still like what they are getting from it (none of the players has had more than a year of total game-time).

Quit gaming?

or quit gaming with that group?

Big difference.  The later (if the situation warrants) is a good idea.  The former...not so much.

[doubtofbuddha]

Quit gaming entirely.


Becaue to be quite honest, the current group has, after much effort and screening on my part, been the best I have EVER found. I am not sure I want to go through the work needed to acquire the gaming group required for what I am after now...

[Mike Holmes]

Hmmm. I see two routs here in general. Neither of which involves quitting. I'm glad to hear that you're continuing on.

One is to give the players what they want. Thier requests aren't so far-fetched in many ways. If they want to have more interactivity, then try to create Bangs that have two options: interact with PCs, or interact with other PCs. Or interacting with the same PC in different ways. Etc, etc. Remember, you can use a lot of Force now to give the players what they want. So if they want more interactivity, you can provide.

It's funny, but I didn't get a chance to respond to your post above about the prep. It looks great, except, as I warned about, the Bangs and NPC seem to drag away from the R-Map. So I was afraid that this would lead to less contact. Like I said, if you're going to have unrelated NPCs, then the map has to pull even harder to keep it one game instead of several being played at once.

Kickers are situations that the player proposes. And if a player wants one, then great. Even moreso, however, if a player asks for a scene of some sort, find a way to make it happen and soon. Don't garuntee resolution, just garuntee a chance to make some decisions. And when things don't seem to be working do something else. Don't sit on a Bang just because you planned it and threw it out there. If the players aren't interested, move on.

As far as character control, I mentioned that one above. If they don't like that sort of challenge, then just don't roll those. Simple as that. Make up the sort of challenges that they want for their characters. If you're not sure what that is, ask.  

The Hero Point thing, I don't get at all. Then again, it's been a long time since I did D&D, really, and only that sort of game gives away pinball amounts of reward points. Seems to really have narrowed down your group to former d20 players. I'll get to that in a minute.

As far as reward types, and a sense of accomplishment, I was worried about that from the last post. I'm not sure why, but I don't think the Bangs are as Bangy as they should be. That is, they're not offering the players an opportunity to make decisions that they feel are pertinent to them as players. That's a risk you run at first, but I'm not sure there isn't something else going on. Might be that you've just been too accepting of my suggestions. If you know the players better (not the characters) then you'd have a better idea of what they like. Again more on that later.

Again, give them what they want. Do they want +3 Swords? You can do that, and better in HQ. Give em magic swords. Make em pay for em tho in terms of decisions in story. That is, make the attainment have to do with the character's issues. That makes them even more fun to get.


Now, it may be that none of this will work. It is entirely possible that, for any of a myriad of reasons that even if you try to cater further to the players, that they won't like it anyhow. That's why different games exist.

So here's my second option. Find another group. Now, I know that you said that this group is the "best" that you've ever found. But looking above at your "screening method" had me worried way back. It implies something that I was hoping wasn't true.

These people aren't your friends, are they? They're aquaintences that you've met for the purpose of gaming, right? Well, at least you seem to get along with them (some players will stick with a group depsite not liking the other players, which is really insane). But would you hang out with these people outside of a game? I put to you that you might not know these people well enough to game with them. An idea that we circulate is that gaming is a social activity first, and that one ought to know the people with whom they game. At least a little. Helps a lot with understanding what people like.

Now, does it mean that you can't play with people that you've just met? No, not at all. But if the social situation isn't right, then it makes the gaming all the harder.

More importantly, is how you got to know these people. I'm getting that you advbertised for them somehow? What you got, then, was a group of D20 players looking for a game. Well, no surprise that they're not into what you're into.

Now, at this point you might be saying, "But that leaves people that I know who want to play HQ, which is nobody." But I'd ask you if you've asked them. That is, people that you know. They don't have to be gamers. In fact, if they are gamers, ask someone else. Because anyone can enjoy RPGs. It's only gamers who ever have a problem with a game like HQ. I've never seen a non-gamer start a RPG and say, "Hey, I'm not advancing quickly enough."

That is, if you introduce new people to RPGs they'll quickly become the "best gamers" that you know, because they'll have learned to play from you. And therefore think that your game is the way to play. That is, they have no pre-conceptions to overcome.

Because those people that you're playing with will probably come around to HQ sooner or later. For some, however, it'll be so long that they'll have given up on your game before "getting it", before adjusting from what they're used to. So why go through all of that? Get people that you know and like to play. Make your own group, don't "recruit" from jaded gamers.

One more thing, if one or two drop out, so much the better. The mode that I've been describibing works best with fewer players for several reasons. 3 or 4 is optimal. So you may find that as the least suitable players leave, that the game just gets better and better.


Now, I'm all backpedaling here worried that I've ruined your gaming career. Tell me some good news. Did nothing cool happen. I was really looking forward to that tomb adventure. How did that go? :-)

Mike

[doubtofbuddha]

I actually never got to the material I noted above.

So what happened had nothing to do with that.

All of their comments were based on me using the material that I had with the first set of bangs and relationship map. I never got into any of the material above (though I did have the PPH encounter Bezarando because she was making boredom noises). What do you think makes them not particularly bangy? I think I might want to, in future bangs, sort of provide a bit more force towards moving the group together and towards something a bit more gratifying in conclusion. Rather than an open-ended relationship map.

Also while I met some of the players through secondary sources most of them have grown to become friends. Some are closer than others, but I have hung out with all of them outside of the context of gaming. I even have been "involved" with one of them. Also of the eight people in my current overall "playing group" (i.e. the two groups I am running) only three of them (none of which were playing that evening) have any extensive experience in gaming outside of my games. Three of the others have been involved in a single campaign in the past. The last two had no previous gaming experience.

I spent most of the day (while running various errands) thinking about what exactly I wanted to do about this and my other, d20 Arcana Unearthed game, that I am currently running and I decided on following what is probably an extremist route. Basically, I think I have four players in my current extended group who I believe will be a bit more amiable to a change of style. This includes two of the players who tried out this hame of HeroQuest (the Esrolian Scholar and the Foreign Warrior Devotee of Babeester Gor if you are curious at all) and two who are just in my d20 game. This is of course assuming that they are interested in it and haven't gotten frustrated with me starting new games every 4-5 months. (I am only really worried about this being a problem with one of them, but you never know.)

And, now you haven't ruined my gaming career. :) I have honestly been teetering at the edge for a few years. This is just even more of an awakening. Hopefully it won't turn out that way, but its no great tragedy if it does.

I will ask the player who went through the tomb of what he thought of its resolution....


Jesse Dean

[Mike Holmes]

What do you think makes them not particularly bangy? I think I might want to, in future bangs, sort of provide a bit more force towards moving the group together and towards something a bit more gratifying in conclusion. Rather than an open-ended relationship map.

This is hard to describe. It's impossible to develop reliable bangs for players that you don't know. Because, no matter what you know about the characters, you can't really know what part about the character intrigues the player the most unless you know the player. For example, I know my friend Dave, and when we play I know that, no matter what the character looks like, he's really interested in his character getting into power struggles, politics, and even military campaigns if possible (wargamer). So I know what sort of issues appeal to him.

Note that this is the key. The Bangs have to appeal to the player, not the character, neccessarily. The outcome of a Bang could, for instance, be one of several nasty results. It's still a Bang, however, assuming that the subject matter appeals to the player.

That all said, some things are pretty universal, and you can do a lot with guesswork.

The point is that I threw out there Bangs based on the just the goals that the players had listed for the characters. That's really sorta slim. Because, sometimes the players just put goals down because the GM tells them to. What may really be interesting to one player may be how well their character can hack up other characters. In which case, you want to get them into fights. Another may really be interested in investigating the magic system in which case bangs should be about choices related to their magic keywords.

As play proceeds, you'll get a better feel for what they like and what they don't like. As you do, appeal to the player, not the character.

Then remember these keys to how Bang driven play works best (IMO):
1. Bangs should force the player to make some decision.

It seems to me that you haven't posted any "then player A had his character do something really exciting!" sorts of posts. It almost sounds as if you're not getting them to the decision making point, or letting them slip out of them. Or, if they are getting to these points, like I said above, they're not the sorts of decisions that really engage the players. By "Bangy" I usually mean something that's powerful enough that it has to engage people. Someone showing up dead is a good example. My examples may have been too light here. Think blood, death, sex and violence. Y'know, Sheakespeare. Make things viceral if the subtle stuff isn't working.

2. Bangs should not make important decisions for the player.

Once you've gotten the player to the decision making point, he shouldn't be able to look at you like, "Well, of course, Sir Exor goes gives up the information rather than dying." There have to be multiple (preferably muiltivariate) legitimate routs for the character to proceed. That is, you have no idea what the player will do, and, more importantly, you're as sure as possible that the player doesn't have any idea what he'll do before he gets there. You know it's perfect if you see the player agonizing about it OOC. "Oh, man, what am I going to...OK, wait, I've got it!"

3. Get to the Bangs, and then get to the Bangs.

Use GM Force, that is make decisions for the characters, that get them to these points. And then, once the decision has been made, then get to the next Bang. No, "what do you do now?" No letting players say, "Now, I guess, I'll go off and train for a while. I find Fernando..." That's not to say that you shouldn't do a scene with Fernando if that seems compelling. Just frame to it. "You've been sparring for a while, and over the course of the workout, he admits to you by subtle intimation that he's been sleeping with your wife." One thing that GMs are trained to do that you have to avoid is keeping information secret. Always be looking for ways to give the players information. Sure, make the characters look good by saying that they're using their Abilities to get the information, but don't actually roll unless the conflict is pertinent to the character (and certainly never because, "Well, it's not simple, so we have to roll" or that sort of logic). Because the players need that information to drive their characters.

That's the "contradiction" that GMs have to get past. Note that when I say "get to the Bangs" above, that doesn't neccessarily mean pre-generated Bangs. I mean anything that you come up with in play. Often players will be generating these things, themselves. That is, they'll say, "I need to find Don Diego! I'm going to kill him!" Unless you see some neat Bang to put inbetween, you're next words should be something like, "An hour later, you're approaching Don Diego with sword drawn as he rests in his garden. Dead guards litter the pavement behind you. He sees you coming, leaps to his feet, and runs!"

Is the style of play gelling in your mind? Is it looking like that in actual play? If so, then it may just be player preference, and not much to be done.

But, hey, if I'm down in Florida some day, I'll come to play (ever go to GenCon?) :-)

Also while I met some of the players through secondary sources most of them have grown to become friends.

Good. Then I blame you for not altering the Bangs to fit them. ;-)

Just kidding. I blame myself for not emphasizing enough that those Bangs were examples and should really have been altered to fit the players in question. Go with what you know about them. I don't know them, you do. What turns them on? If it's really D&D action, then you can give that to them. All the better for the context in which it'll exist using HQ.

Basically, I think I have four players in my current extended group who I believe will be a bit more amiable to a change of style.

You're suggesting starting a new game with these specific individuals? That sounds cool. You can consider this a test game, maybe, to see who likes what. You've really done the best thing in presenting the game with a straightforward idea of what it's like. Trying to change people's preferences is nigh impossible.

That said, if this is what you're proposing, talk to the players in question. Ask them what they think about this. Heck have them read the thread. Get them involved on the GM level. That's the best way to ensure that they are invested, and understand what they're getting into.

And, now you haven't ruined my gaming career. :) I have honestly been teetering at the edge for a few years. This is just even more of an awakening. Hopefully it won't turn out that way, but its no great tragedy if it does.

Tragedy for me. Mars the thread to say the least. And I hate to see a good gamer give in, especially when I'm proposing techniques that are supposed to help good gamers stay in gaming. So I'm pulling for you. :-)

I will ask the player who went through the tomb of what he thought of its resolution....

What did you think about it? Were you excited. Remember that Bangs have to be interesting to all the players including yourself. If you're not excited, they you can't sell it either. If other players aren't interested, they'll only wish that you'd get to a scene with them in it. To the extent possible, make Bangs appeal to everyone.

To be really precise, that wasn't a Bang. It was a lead up to one. As such, it can be cool and fun, but it shouldn't have been the point. The real question is what's to be done afterwards. Did you get to that part?

Mike

[doubtofbuddha]

This is hard to describe. It's impossible to develop reliable bangs for players that you don't know. Because, no matter what you know about the characters, you can't really know what part about the character intrigues the player the most unless you know the player. For example, I know my friend Dave, and when we play I know that, no matter what the character looks like, he's really interested in his character getting into power struggles, politics, and even military campaigns if possible (wargamer). So I know what sort of issues appeal to him.

Ahhh, that might be part of the problem. This is the first time I have gamed with two of the people. One I have only gamed with for a few months (and she hasn't really had anything particular to her character bubble up to the surface, instead mostly focusing on the main plotlines everyone else is involved with.) The two players who I am planning on bringing over from this group are also those who I have been playing with since about April.

The point is that I threw out there Bangs based on the just the goals that the players had listed for the characters. That's really sorta slim. Because, sometimes the players just put goals down because the GM tells them to.

Ahh... see I was making the same assumption you were. Which is probably part of the reason that the game got tripped up. I tried to correct that by posting a thread on my group message board about what they wanted, but responses were few and kind of vague.

As play proceeds, you'll get a better feel for what they like and what they don't like. As you do, appeal to the player, not the character.

Right. Well, its quite possible that I won't be continuing with most of the group. In fact, I think that the next session or two will be tests in this regard. I have a pretty good idea of what I am going to do tommorow, abd hopefully it will turn out better than my previous sessions.

It seems to me that you haven't posted any "then player A had his character do something really exciting!" sorts of posts. It almost sounds as if you're not getting them to the decision making point, or letting them slip out of them. Or, if they are getting to these points, like I said above, they're not the sorts of decisions that really engage the players.

Well we pretty much got to all of the decision making points and I thought that they, for the most part turned out pretty well. Except for the attempt to blackmail the EFS as she was like "So what if the High Queen knows I am here, I was just banished from the capital" Which was a mistake on my part.  But yes, some players had more fun with their decisions than others. It seems that the PPH had fun with interacting with the two guys who had info but because of the fact that other people had more time due to their extended contests she seemed annoyed because she didn't have enough face time. (Plus her scenes didn't end up taking very long). I threw in an encounter with the preacher I posted above but she dismissed  him as being irrelevant to her ultimate goal.

Both the CWDBG and the ES seemed to enjoy their encounters a bit, though the CWDBG is kind of annoyed her character doesn't quite fit her original concept. If this continues we will probably move her to the point where she has passed being a follower of Babeester Gor.

2. Bangs should not make important decisions for the player.

They made decisions. In certain cases it seemed as if the decision was easier than the others, but in the end they all made decisions. I didn't really ask them how easy their decisions were, but it didn't take them very long to agonize over them for the most part. Though there were some exceptions. However, I was prepared to make each of the different paths equally legitimate. It just didn't seem that they really followed any of the "alternative paths."

3. Get to the Bangs, and then get to the Bangs.

Hmmmm, but if we aren't using the system then why bother using the system in the first place? I mean why not just handle it in a free form manner rather than throwing in any sort of mechanics in the picture if it is all about player choices?

And yes the style of play is sort of gelling. However, I am not sure how much I agree with it. Maybe that translated into me mismanaging the flow of the scenes and bangs in game.

For example, I ran the situation where the CWDBG was dealing with Sabunda as an extended contest. Sabunda's goal was to "Put the CWDBG in her place" the CWDBG's goal was to keep her nerve enough to keep her job without killing Sabunda. So I handled their give and take as an extended contest with the eventual result of a minor defeat on the part of the CWDGB.  (Which resulted in her losing her cool and quitting but still not killing Sabunda. A harsher defeat would have resulted in her losing her cool and attacking or something along those lines).

But, hey, if I'm down in Florida some day, I'll come to play (ever go to GenCon?) :-)

Sure.
Though I have only gone to Gen Con once, for the prmire of 3e. ;)

Just kidding. I blame myself for not emphasizing enough that those Bangs were examples and should really have been altered to fit the players in question. Go with what you know about them. I don't know them, you do. What turns them on? If it's really D&D action, then you can give that to them. All the better for the context in which it'll exist using HQ.

I have decided that with my next "adventure" I am going to send them on an ocean voyage in pursuit of the fleeing Sabunda and associates. I am going to start it out with them on the ship as they encounter a sea godling (daimone) who is going to demand the tribute of three live sacrifices of the crew members.  The Red Earth associated PCs have been sent by Neara and the others have basically been instructed to go and aid them or their lives are forfeit. Though I am not going to actually go through the scene where this is talked about. Instead I am going to just start with the interactions with the daimone. The rest of it is going to be a series of encounters that show case some of the flexibility and mythic adventure that can arise from the Glorantha setting.

My ulterior motive in this is to see how the players react and get a better feel for their characters. Hopefully, it will allow me to get more of an idea as to what some of the more obscured players want for their characters so I can switch to a more narrative style a little later on down the line. I will, however, be utilizing some of the narrative techniques you suggested (such as DM force) in order to move the adventure along.

You're suggesting starting a new game with these specific individuals? That sounds cool. You can consider this a test game, maybe, to see who likes what. You've really done the best thing in presenting the game with a straightforward idea of what it's like. Trying to change people's preferences is nigh impossible.

Yes. Though two of them aren't playing in the HeroQuest group right now as one is in Thailand and the other one is at home for the holidays. In about a week though they will be back and we will be able to figure out what to do. I have spoken to three of them (all but the one in Thailand) about this. But I think I know the other two well enough to get a good idea of what they want. I also told two of them to look at this thread as you suggested. I will send the others later.

I do admit that I am kind of worried about annoying the other players.  They are my friends after all. :-/

Tragedy for me. Mars the thread to say the least. And I hate to see a good gamer give in, especially when I'm proposing techniques that are supposed to help good gamers stay in gaming. So I'm pulling for you. :-)

Well, we will see what happens. I could probably stand running HeroQuest with some of my old style. Its mostly just d20 that I am no longer able to tolerate.

What did you think about it? Were you excited. Remember that Bangs have to be interesting to all the players including yourself. If you're not excited, they you can't sell it either. If other players aren't interested, they'll only wish that you'd get to a scene with them in it. To the extent possible, make Bangs appeal to everyone.  

I think the tomb was one of the best parts of the game. Though we had to get over the silliness of having the complex perform actions designed to confused the players. But we got around it and the player got really into it too, describing what he did in relation to his point bids. So we got pretty interactive and the whole contest went by in a reasonable amount of time.

To be really precise, that wasn't a Bang. It was a lead up to one. As such, it can be cool and fun, but it shouldn't have been the point. The real question is what's to be done afterwards. Did you get to that part?

Yes, and he decided to give her the gold but he didn't want to go with her.
I basically resolved every single bang that you came up with and I altered except for the one where the CWDBG interacting with the queen. Though that one probably will not happen now with her revising her character concept.

[doubtofbuddha]

Actually scratch my comment about doing the voyage thing. After further reading here, I think it would be better if I try to extend stuff on the relationship map, no matter how difficult that might be for some characters...


I am going to get together with my players and try to figure out what exactly they want and then while we take a break for Simpsons (::twitch::) write up some appropriate bangs.

Jesse D.

[Mike Holmes]

Ahhh, that might be part of the problem. This is the first time I have gamed with two of the people. One I have only gamed with for a few months (and she hasn't really had anything particular to her character bubble up to the surface, instead mostly focusing on the main plotlines everyone else is involved with.) The two players who I am planning on bringing over from this group are also those who I have been playing with since about April.

So, simply watch what interests each player in play. When do they smile. Do more of that. Pretty straightforward. Even if you think you know what the player likes, or they've told you, watching their play can be more informative than you think.

Ahh... see I was making the same assumption you were. Which is probably part of the reason that the game got tripped up. I tried to correct that by posting a thread on my group message board about what they wanted, but responses were few and kind of vague.

Asking is a good thing to do for several reasons, but often you get the sorts of responses that you're saying that you got. Because players don't know what turns them on half the time. They either haven't thought about it, or don't care to do so. So it's up to you to watch and find out for them.

Right. Well, its quite possible that I won't be continuing with most of the group. In fact, I think that the next session or two will be tests in this regard. I have a pretty good idea of what I am going to do tommorow, abd hopefully it will turn out better than my previous sessions.

I hope it's going well for you. In any case, practice makes perfect. :-)

Well we pretty much got to all of the decision making points and I thought that they, for the most part turned out pretty well.

Cool, but the problem is that these things seem to really only be appealing to the player's experiencing them. That is, if the other players were into the other player's characters and what was happening to them, you'd get less complaints about not enough face time.

An easy technique to engage onlookers, is to ask them what should happen next. Give them a little GM authority over a scene framing or something. That way, they have the same sort of invenstment in the scene that you do automatically. The reason I suggested allowing players to play NPCs is similar. It doesn't just give them something to do, it ensures that they get interested in that character's story.

Optimally what you want is each player authoring thier part of the story, but everyone engaged in what's happening to all characters. Author for your character, Audience for all characters. Optimally.

It seems that the PPH had fun with interacting with the two guys who had info but because of the fact that other people had more time due to their extended contests she seemed annoyed because she didn't have enough face time. (Plus her scenes didn't end up taking very long).

Then it's possible you're not putting the extended contests in the right places. This is something that's hard for people to grasp sometimes. Combats against armies should be Simple Contests, while rolling to determine where the nearest cloth merchant's shop is should be an Extended Contest. Assuming that the second has more dramatic importance than the first.

P. 66, HeroQuest - You use extended contests when the outcome of the struggle is important, to generate suspense for the players, or when the narrator wants a back and forth struggle.

Nowhere in there does it say that long contests have to be extended contests. Nor should they be. As Narrator, you have the lattitude under the rules to decide when to use extended contests, the only criterion being subjective ones (when you think it's important, when you want it to be suspenseful, when you think that it would be best to do a back and forth).

The point is to use them sparingly. The rules also say that most contests are simple contests. For a very good reason. The more extended contests you throw in, the less effective they are. Use them only with great care.

At this point in your game, I wouldn't have used any at all, with the exception of the tomb adventure. Even that could have been a Simple Contest, potentially - the only reason that I thought to do it as an extended contest is because it seemed to be a way to abreviate an otherwise longer "dungeon adventure". To be really pointed, you could just have framed past the entire Tomb adventure. Because, again, that wasn't the point of what was happening to the character. I'll get back to this further down.

Both the CWDBG and the ES seemed to enjoy their encounters a bit, though the CWDBG is kind of annoyed her character doesn't quite fit her original concept. If this continues we will probably move her to the point where she has passed being a follower of Babeester Gor.

That's a really great idea. I had exactly the same problem with a character of mine, and we're rectifying it through play just as you are. In a way, it's sorta like playing through a little of the character's background. Which is neat.

[/quote]They made decisions. In certain cases it seemed as if the decision was easier than the others, but in the end they all made decisions. I didn't really ask them how easy their decisions were, but it didn't take them very long to agonize over them for the most part. Though there were some exceptions. However, I was prepared to make each of the different paths equally legitimate. It just didn't seem that they really followed any of the "alternative paths." [/quote]Alarm bells! Alternative paths? I'm feeling unconfident that I'm getting through. No path should seem more likely than any others. That is, if you look at a Bang, and think, "Hmm. He'll probably do this." Then it's not a Bang at all. The point of this part of the definition is that you really should have no idea which way the player will go. With the best Bangs, you don't even have a dichotomy of answers to choose from, just a point at which something must happen, but you're not sure what will.

The reason for this is that the idea of Bangs is to empower players. If they even feel the slightest pressure to go one way or another, it may be that they're thinking that you have some plot for them to follow, and that they have to follow it. This is classic gamer behavior.

Next time a player comes to a decision point, no matter what they decide, ask them, "Are you sure you want to do that?" In that tone that GMs reserve to tell players that they're making a mistake and should change their minds. If they stick to their guns, then smile and continue on. If they change their minds, say, "Are you sure you want to do that?" ad nauseum.

The point is that you have to ensure that the players know that they're creating their character's destiny with each decision. That there isn't some path that they're being led down to some pre-determined conclusion. Once that happens for sure, then you'll really know if the players like this mode or not. Because it's at that point that the satisfaction of this style of play occurs. If they feel that they're just being more subtly forced into some plotline, then what they're complaining about is that things don't seem dramatic enough. And indeed they're not, because neither you nor the player is authoring anything - plot is just being created by false assumption.

And that's bad. Make sure the players get that they can do anything they want. This is why at some points it's really helpful to ask the player what sort of scene they want to have next. Because at that point they'll really get the idea that they're not being forced. If they're making up the scenes, then certainly they've got the power to do outcomes, and you can't have a predetermined plot in mind.

Hmmmm, but if we aren't using the system then why bother using the system in the first place? I mean why not just handle it in a free form manner rather than throwing in any sort of mechanics in the picture if it is all about player choices?

AAAIIIIIEEEE!
Never, ever, ever, ever, fail to use the system as it's designed. Part of this method of play is that the dice fall where they may, and the GM never fudges or does anything against the rules. In fact, do you have a GM screen or something? Chuck it now. Make all rolls in the middle of the table where everybdy can see them. This is an important player trust issue.

Now, you're saying, "But you said, don't use the system for certain things, didn't you?" I'm going to quote from the rules again just so you know I'm not pulling stuff out of my ass:

P. 60 HeroQuest - When the story throws up a challenge, you pit one of your hero's abilities in a contest.

Sometimes the action is something that "no self-respecting hero would ever fail at." In these cases, the narrator simply declares an automatic success, without any need for a contest.

Emphasis is from the text.

(Note that later on in that section it lays out in even clearer terms that extended contests are only for dramatic circumstances).

So, I put it to you that if you're playing, and you have the fight against the guards to get at the guy in question, then if you haven't really determined that to be important to the story, that you're playing incorrectly. My interpretation follows the text more closely, IMO. I never ignore the system.

Now, what constitues a "challenge" that's "thrown up by the story"? Well, that's quite subjective. But that's always true in every single RPG out there. In every game, they'll have a section that says something akin to, "Don't roll to have the characters cross the street, or tie their shoes." But why not? I mean, these are tasks, and crossing the street could certainly have a dire outcome (people are killed every day). These rules exist because crossing the street likely has nothing to do with the plot. So the general rule is, "only use the resolution system when it's dramatically important to do so." Now other systems will imply that all combat situations count (and, indeed, most do I acceed). But this is HeroQuest, and I think that the text here supports well the idea that the question of what's "dramatic" is a bit stricter in this game than in others. It's not just whenever there's a chance of failure, or when it would be so in another RPG, but, per the above, when it's important to the story.

So, again, you have carte blanche to make any resolution a non-issue at any time (technically you have to make it a success, but by an argument that I don't want to lay out in full here, you can just declare failure, too). Now, this is not to say that you have no restrictions on what you can make an automatic success. Some players take this too far and say, "well, then I can just dictate all successes and failures." But that would be ignoring the text again where it says that you must use the contest rules for challenges thrown up by the story. Which is to say that it's precisely how well you measure how important a particular challenge is to the story that makes you a good or bad GM in HQ. Yes, if you ignore the resolution system in a case that's dramatic, then you're playing incorrectly. And badly, I'd argue.

Because if you use the system as Laws and Stafford present it, it works great.

- end rant -

The point is that none of what I've suggested is a failure to use the system, but, rather, I think, a very effective interpretation of the rules as they're written.

For example, I ran the situation where the CWDBG was dealing with Sabunda as an extended contest.

See, that sounds fine to me. I'm not seeing how that's problematic with the style that I'm envisioning. In this case, "get to the Bang" means, get to the part of the scene where the die roll has to be made. Even better, get to the point in the scene where deciding how to make the die roll (deciding what ability to use, and/or precisely how it's done) such that either method has it's own ups and downs. That is, it should entail choices. If these don't, then it's something that needs to be wrapped up quickly.

Sure.
Though I have only gone to Gen Con once, for the prmire of 3e. ;)

OK, to be more direct, are you coming this year? So we can do a demo game?

I have decided that with my next "adventure" I am going to send them on an ocean voyage in pursuit of the fleeing Sabunda and associates.

Am I glad you didn't do this. That is, it would seem to entail making the decision for the characters that this was somthing they all wanted to do. Again, use your GM authority to get to decisions like this, not to make them. If the decision to go had been trivial, then it would make sense. But it seems to me that in doing so you would be resolving all sorts of other issues that the other Bangs were meant to address. So good call on keeping them home.  

The rest of it is going to be a series of encounters that show case some of the flexibility and mythic adventure that can arise from the Glorantha setting.

And that take away all player control of events. Again, close call. Instead, use the "flexibility and mythic adventure" of Glorantha, to make the character's issues more important.

So, if the issue is honor, have an Earth Demon show up and demand challengers for the right to rule the city or something (meaning that the character can probably get their honor, but only by being defeated by the demon). Just because the issues are personal, doesn't mean that the backdrop has to remain mundane. Consider the ramifications of every single NPCs magic abilities, and then have them do some magic that really bring things to the fore. Again, just because the PC issues haven't dealt with magic a trolls, doesn't mean that they can't be a part of what happens. They should be, or it isn't really Glorantha.

I do admit that I am kind of worried about annoying the other players.  They are my friends after all. :-/

And you should be. That all said, and even with all the doomsaying that I'm doing above, the upside is that you're reports are still of a sort overall that I'm optimistic about. Because HQ is such a good engine that anyone can enjoy it. Heck, even if you were to play it totally in a D&D style, I think it would still work fine. It's more than robust.

Well, we will see what happens. I could probably stand running HeroQuest with some of my old style. Its mostly just d20 that I am no longer able to tolerate.

Yeah, maybe I pushed you into the deep end. Still, I think that you're getting it pretty well. I've just sorta rushed things in my presentation, so, again, any problems to date are really my fault.

I think the tomb was one of the best parts of the game. Though we had to get over the silliness of having the complex perform actions designed to confused the players. But we got around it and the player got really into it too, describing what he did in relation to his point bids. So we got pretty interactive and the whole contest went by in a reasonable amount of time.

Hmmm. Sillyness? Could you explain what you mean? Is this something about how the system handled it, or how you made up the contest?

Mike

[Scripty]

AAAIIIIIEEEE!
Never, ever, ever, ever, fail to use the system as it's designed. Part of this method of play is that the dice fall where they may, and the GM never fudges or does anything against the rules. In fact, do you have a GM screen or something? Chuck it now. Make all rolls in the middle of the table where everybdy can see them. This is an important player trust issue.

Mike

I've been following this thread a bit and I felt that this was an important point that deserved repeating and some back-up.

I just finished a game run by one of my friends. It was a FengShui-Horror chimera. Although the game and the genre don't quite mix, IMO, the GM was convinced to pull it through by hook or crook.

The funny thing is he has been playing in a number of my games, especially the HeroQuest one and had taken a shine to MGF (Maximum Game Fun) but didn't quite have a handle on what it meant. He seems to be keen on the way HeroQuest can "morph" to the dramatic importance of any given situation. For instance, a combat that is meaningless would be an automatic success. A debate that would determine the fate of galaxies could be an Extended contest (instead of a single skill roll like in most other rpgs).

Much like the two ingredients of the game itself, whacky-over-the-top-kung-fu goodness and gritty-survivalist-George Romero Horror, these two concepts collided in mid-air during the game session.

He came to take MGF to be a representation of his own fun, rather than a responsibility for "everyone" to act towards the most fun at the table. And he came to perceive that the malleability of the contests in HeroQuest could be applied across any game, without actually understanding that there is a concrete set of rules beneath the whole Automatic-Simple-Extended Contest thing. He perceived it as "the GM can change the rules to meet the the needs of MGF (which as I mentioned he defined as his own merry time)." The result was painful. He tried really hard (B+ for effort) but, on top of shoehorning a system into a genre for which it was ill-suited, the disconnect with MGF and the rules really grated on my nerves (and others as well).

The end result was that he doggedly pushed us down a pre-determined plotline (which was his idea of what was fun) and changed (or ignored) the rules when the results would have caused him to deviate from that plotline. I guess his estimation was that he thought the plot was fun, therefore everyone else would. I don't think he gave much thought to how the blocking and disregard for the "Social Contract" would affect everyone's impression of the game.

Meanwhile, he was having to re-work or ignore altogether the game system in order to pull players' attentions from the neat-o cool schticks (or deny them altogether), in order to make Feng Shui be more like Call of Cthulhu. We tried. But it was still like dropping Chow Yun Fat in the middle of Night of the Living Dead with a Clip of Unending Ballistics and a suit with Permanent Drycleaning (all the while forcing Chow to "feel" threatened by creatures whom he clearly outclassed by *making* his suit get dirty or *making* his bullets miss their target).

It was very dysfunctional. I'm glad it's over. I don't know if I would've played many more sessions as it stood. Something good did come out of it, though, the GM asked for a copy of the Hero's Book for Christmas. I bought him a copy of HeroQuest. The narrator's section alone is worth the added price, IMO.

Long story short, changing the rules on the spot or assuming a game like HeroQuest may just as well be free-form is a recipe for disaster, IME. If you have to change the rules to get a specific outcome, then you're not going for MGF, IMO. I recommend dropping the attachment to the outcomes of your Bangs, plots, storylines, contests, NPCs, etc. Go with what works at the moment. Go with what your players bring you.

For me, I know I have a good Bang when I can look at some notes I've scribbled and say (with no evil grin, but actual interest) "Hmm, I wonder what they'll do there..." For me, Bangs are all about decisions that define characters. The rest develops itself.

For the record, I don't use a GM screen. I hope this hasn't veered too far off topic.

Scott

[doubtofbuddha]

For the record, I don't use a GM screen. I hope this hasn't veered too far off topic.

Scott

I think you both misunderstood me. I was asking that question not because I wanted to veer off from using the system (I REEEEAALLY like the HeroQuest system), but because I thought that what Mike was suggesting was that I ignore the system. I didn't agree with it, so I was asking the question in order to invoke further elaboration. Which is what it accomplished.

I will post a bit more later as my game is in 30 minutes and I need to have the stated pre-game discussion.

[doubtofbuddha]

Alright, another session passed.

Only three players were present. One was absent for not discernable reason (she didn't call or anything) and the other had already told us she was going to be in Chicago. However, overall the game was a success in that the players enjoyed themselves. However I am not sure how much I was able to succeed in constructing a "Narrativist" experience.

Basically I got together with the three players and took turns discussing with them what exactly they wanted out of the game.  It turns out one of the players (the DHPN) is pretty much a gamist. I pointed out he probably wouldn't have very much enjoyment from the game as I was running it but he insisted he continue trying it out anyway. ::shrugs::

The EFS couldn't really give me much beyond that she was amoral and she wanted revenge on the High Queen. ::sighs:: I am really not sure what to do about her. She has expressed a bit of interest in investigation, combat, and using her feminine wiles to her advantage but none of it seems really bang-worthy.

The ES said he wanted his character to explore the limits of his timidness and eventually come to terms with whether or not he wanted to be a hero or let his timidness overwhelm him. He also wanted to explore the idea of magic related to shaping and tapping into his own personal myths. Considering he has yet to even use the myth powers he has (no combats involving him yet), I am not sure how fast that is going to work.

So based on this information I did my best on writing up two bangs for each of them. Unfortunately I ran out of time on the EFS.
ES:
Visited by Ahaelik who hires him to research the myths of Wenelia. He relates stories of his travels and encourages him to go out and explore the world.

Rahal invites him to court and offers him a position in her library. This offers him security but will probably prevent him from becoming a real hero or going on a real adventure.

DHPN:
Neara asks him to engage in a ritual that would allow him to gain more influence with the Esrolian Red Earth faction at the cost of putting him in a humiliating role. This would cause a conflict between his sense of cultural superiority (engaging in this inferior Esrolian ritual presided over by women!) as compared to his desire for power and influence.

Unsur begs him for aid in regards to his whole imprisonment situation. Will he help his friend at the risk of angering Neara.

EFS:
Neara sends Lisith after Ahaelik in order to find Sabunda. Will she be able to overcome any personal desire she may have for Ahaelik (he is damn sexy) in order to do her duty and move forward towards her goals of revenge?


How this played out in the game is this:
I started off with the Unsur situation. The DHPN basically denied him and told him he was a disgrace and deserved any punishment he recieved and torture on top of it. He seemed vaguely interested in acquiring any help that Unsur could give him but did not find any of Unsur's offers to be worthwhile.

Afterwards I had the ES meet up with Ahaelik and had interaction go back and forth between the two of them. The player of the ES did a pretty job of playing his character in the face of Ahaelik's bravado and combination of encouragement for adventure combined with a request for information.

At the same time I had the EFS meet with Neara and eventually find her way to the library where the ES was meeting with Ahaelik. (I did a simple contest to determine how long it took). The end result was Ahealik and the EFS meeting up in the office of the ES. The ES vacated the premisis when things started to get ugly and ran to get help with a marginal defeat. So the librarian-priestess (I just used the one I wrote up above) and the guards did not show up until after Ahaelik was defeated. I did use that as a means to ensure that the victory was only marginal. They had him where he couldn't escape but the arrival of the guards changed the situation. After some negotiation eventually the EFS agreed to take any conflict outside and left. Ahaelik thanked the ES, answered a few of his questions and asked for him for help in escaping. This resulted in a contest between the ES's ability to find a way out and the EFS's ability to watch the building. Once again a marginal victory for the ES, and it allow Ahaelik a head start in fleeing. the EFS rolled well in the subsequent contests and was able to capture him.

When she was returning she had a brief encounter with the DHPN before handing Ahaelik off to Neara.

The DHPN was asked to participate in the ritual and after some brief hesitation he agreed. I also used this as an oppurtunity to explain some of the stuff about the Year King. Afterwards he decided he wanted to try to seduce the priestess who was helping to train him for the ritual, and he did reasonably well. I am not sure what the ramifications are going to be for this, but he used a hero point to buy a relationship with her.

The ES used some time to research information and used this time as an oppurtunity to purchase relationships both with the Temple Library and the Queen's Library.

I fast-forwarded a few days and sent the EFS to get Sabunda at Leera's. The ES was also there (he was supposed to meet Ahealik there) and the EFS came over there and threatened him. Sabunda managed to avoid notice and conversed with the ES. He told her about the EFS, and she proceeded to flee out of the building. He then decided to leave to but the EFS stopped him outside and then tried to physically intimidate him. That failed and he was able to call enough attention to himself that she let him leave. He went to Rahal's castle and requested the ability to stay there a few nights with the librarians and "inadvertantly" revealed that Neara was about to seize Sabunda. Queen Rahal's men sent a Humkati Warrior (2w2 Warior and 17 Initiate) and some men-at-arms (17 warrior) to recover her.

The EFS was able to successfully wait out Sabunda and attacked Sabunda when she tried to sneak her way back to get her stuff from her room. A battle ensued and they were able to defeat Sabunda but only barely. She agreed to go but insisted that she keep her spear. The EFS agreed.

They were able to intercept her but I allowed the DHPN to show up (he has been itching for some combat) and I followed that with an extended contest fight. It went back and forth a few times but ended with the Humakti Warrior being the last man standing and making off with Sabunda. Thats where I ended.

I am thinking next session I am going to up the tension and stakes in the city and that things are going to, thanks to the actions of the PCs, go one step closer to a break down of the Warm Earth - Red Earth collaboration in Rhigos. I may even have it break into open battle and perhaps a coup.

My main problem is nothing that happened seemed all that bangy. Am I correct or incorrect in this assumption? I am also not sure what I did differently that changed the level of enjoyment in the session. Maybe it was the increase in player interaction, even if some of it was adverserial in nature. Two of the players (both of which were present) expressed some annoyance over one of the players who was absent, so that may have increased their enjoyment.  

Also, how often is it appropriate to give out hero points? I ask because I gave out like 4 or 5 (I do not remember exactly) at the start of the session and by the end 2 of the 3 players has used all of them on bumps or  gaining/improving abilities? Should I give out more next session or just wait until I complete a particular "arc?"

I will post more tommorow (and respond to the above posts) but for now I need sleeeeeep.