Scene definition and division

[Christopher Weeks]

Hi all,

Over at The Universalis Arena we have a scene where there might be a lull in the action, but there might be more action to happen in a little while (game time).  So does someone narrate time passing and then go into the next events, or do we end the scene and restart later if someone happens to want to?

I favor ending the scene to trigger refresh ASAP and then opening a scene a while later in the same place with many of the same characters.  I just read Cutting Back to the Same Scene on p.53 and that sounds like exactly what I was thinking (and cheaper!), but my question still revolves around "What's appropriate?"

Though I guess this might be just one of the things that each group decides locally, I'd be interested in hearing what others have done.

Chris

[Mike Holmes]

I'm not sure I see the problem. If the person who opened the scene wants to close it, he closes it. If not, it stays open.

By our special rule, if its dormant anyone can close it after a while (or something like that), to free up the components. But that's still player prerogative. I prefer to leave it at that state.

Have I missed the issue? Are you asking for artistic advice? If so, I'll politely remove myself from the debate, as I'm hardly an artist. :-)

I mean, go with your gut.

Mike

[Christopher Weeks]

OK.  I didn't exactly mean there was a problem.  But let me reframe my question/concern in abstracts (but still within the rules-set of TUA).

I could frame scene A with a single character and make it appealing enough for you to enter with another character and then instantly close the scene, right?  We get refresh of 6&5 after spending 2&1.  Then I could just rinse and repeat (doing little and getting Coins) only this time get the characters for free by reopening the scene.

This would be impossible with a bid for framing, but we don't have that.

So, if You and I were doing this, and the other players were unhappy about it, what woudl be their most appropriate response (short of quitting, I mean)?  Could they Challenge anything, scene ending itself?  They could get in on it if they were vigilant enough to insert a character before the scene closed.

And I guess things brings me to a TUA specific question that maybe I should ask somewhere else, but here's convenient: Are the rules we established about closing a scene in addition to the normal Universalis rules or instead of them?  Can the scene's framer end a scene whenever they want or do they have to wait for 48 hours of innactivity?

Chris

[Mike Holmes]

OK, now that's an issue. :-)

And one that I really hadn't considered. In the other game, we said that if nobody attended your scene, that you got no refresh in order to prevent this (and we're saying that for this game, too, right?) Anyhow, I think that this is the sort of "abuse" that challenges are for. If we see players doing it, we'll just fine the bejeesus outa them.

Does that make sense? This way it's a judgement call - as I think it has to be.

Given that, I'd advocate the Framer being able to close whenever in addition to the 48 hour rule. Pending some discussion, I'll probably Gimmick that in myself (I don't like to step outside the system after the game has started - set's bad precedent).

Mike

[Bob McNamee]

I would also Challenge someone closing and reopening a scene like you questioned.

They would at least have to accomplish something decent before closing it. There would be little or no benefit to closing before other Players added something.

Our rules...
I'm in favor of our rule being an addition to the regular.
My opinion is that the scene framer can close the scene when they wish (barring Challenges...I don't think you even have to have involved yourself in a scene to challenge this) and if the scene has been dormant, then any player can close the scene (to free up components , as Mike said).

[Valamir]

Question on the idea of freeing up components.

I gather this is a rule you've adopted to allow the play of several active concurrent scenes (something an online format is ideally suited to regulating).

If someone opens a new scene and pays the cost to frame into the future, can they use Components involved in an existing scene?

This would involve a) eliminating the possibility of that Component being eliminated or significantly altered (in a non recoverable way) prior to the future scene; and b) requiring that the Component leave the current scene (or the scene end) before the future scene begins.

These issues are why the cost for framing into the future is 1 Coin per other player, payed to the other players.

It is a particularly interesting question for your play, since the rule  was not written with concurrent scenes in mind (where it could be abused as a "make my favorite character invincible in Scene A by framing Scene B into the future").  Also with a variable number of players drifting in and out with no clear definition of who's active and who's not at any given point, the way the cost is paid might be squirrely.

Any thoughts?

[Mike Holmes]

Too hard to recapture the disscusion in short. See the whole thing here:
http://www.anvilwerks.com/index.php/TUA/SceneFraming

Framing definitely generated the most discussion of any of the rules we discussed. I'm not sure it's entirely resolved, but the general rule is the, essentially the "Poly" principle. No thing in two places at the same time. Since we're tracking the time on scenes, it shouldn't be too difficult to keep things straight. There was some talk about not allowing "future" or "past" scenes, but I think that'll get worked out in play.

Mike

[Valamir]

Thanks for the link.  That was a good discussion.

I'm hoping someone will be willing to write up the Universalis Wiki play handbook when all is said and done for me to provide as a resource on the site.

[Christopher Weeks]

OK, I have another question about scene framing, and figured I might as well stash it here.  When you "cut back" to a previously closed scene, framing a continuation, who is in control of the character components?  The players who were before, or the person reopening the scene?

I've done so by opening http://www.anvilwerks.com/index.php/TUA/ReturnToRitualSlayingPart2 at The Universalis Arena.

Chris

[Mike Holmes]

Person opening the scene. This is for several reasons, but is doubly important for our purposes as we don't record control. One could figure it out, but what if a person didn't remember that they'd controlled something in the reopened scene? Unless nudged, they'd forget to come back and participate. They can always deign not to participate anyhow, but I'd prefer that this be an informed decision, not by accident.

Mike