Best system for Play-by-Post play?

[DevP]

I've noticed (and overheard, from other threads), that certain systems are particularly ill-suited for the time-lag inherent in play-by-post. The one PbP game I ran ultimately broke because I ran it too much like a FtF game; I stopped for input at the wrong places, and resultingly the gameplay slowed and interested died. Sad story.

What system do people know of with specific promise in PbP (or PBeM) play? And what characteristics should such a system have?

At least, I would suggest a  task resolution system that doesn't require a GM-arbitrated die roll (as that slows down the player's initial post and the follow-up post dealing with the outcome). Perhaps diceless resolution with clear success thresholds; or perhaps FitM or FatB where the player can know the outcome of the task before describing it in his post. Also, players should be given a free hand in describing the outcomes of their actions so they can create a good written narrative to accompany it.

There is still a problem of how to allow non-real-time dialogue between player-characters. Without a slow-down of play. Are there restarined ways that players can take narrative liberties in describing the reactions of the other characters?

[Christopher Weeks]

What do you mean by "without a slow-down of play?"  I just don't think that's possible.  Play by post is going to be slower than face to face.  The key, in my opinion, is to facilitate a PbP game that takes sufficient advantage of the strengths of the medium (disparate players, more players, time to get what you want to write just right, no slow-down associated with rules look-ups, inclusion of players who can't meet for a specific block of time, etc) so that the slow-down seems a worthy price to pay.

We're playing Universalis at http://www.anvilwerks.com/index.php/TUA/ right now and you can peruse the game for the customizations we did to take advantage of the Wiki that we're playing on.  (And more players would be great, if anyone's interested!)  It is slow, but we have multiple scenes which seems to be handling our varrying ability to check in on the game quite nicely.  We adopted slight variant rules for how to handle Complications.  The difference with Challenges (haven't happened yet, actually) is largely a matter of style -- but also have a rule handling how long in the past the statement under scrutiny was made.  Etc.

Are you designing something to specifically hit the positive attributes for PbP?

Chris

[MachMoth]

I don't think I've ever seen a system published that said "use me for PBP/EM."  However, I've seen a number of them made just for a single game.  If your looking for a system, you'd do better to look at the actual games, than the indie scene.  I myself am working on one specifically for PBP.  But, again, I had no plans for publishing it for anyone outside of the group playing.  Not because of any attitude, just because the thought had never occurred to me.

If your making when, then YAY.  Go for it.  My best tip would be to try for a resolution system that can be handled in a single exchange.  That way, it can nest well into the narration, and doesn't create any extra posts (or lag).

[M. J. Young]

We use Multiverser to run games on the Multiverser forum at Gaming Outpost (open to anyone who wants to watch--we run the games in narrative threads, with a seperate mechanics thread to show what happens behind the screens). I had to make a couple of social adjustments, but no rules changes.

One thing is that players have to work with contingencies: I'm going to do A until B happens, unless C happens, in which case I'll switch to D. I'm going to Try E, F, G, and H, until something works. The referee then has to work within those contingencies, interpreting what the player will do based on what he's said if it doesn't fit exactly, or interrupting to ask for clarification if something happens that's off the expectations.

Referees have to provide information in larger chunks. If there's no reason to think looking around is dangerous or that the character wouldn't do it, the referee has to provide whatever would be learned by such an examination--you can't keep stuff out that would be obvious to someone present merely because the player neglected to ask for it, because that slows play.

Combat is always going to be more difficult, unless you go to single-roll resolution of everything. Our approach takes advantage of the contingencies concept: the player says he's going to use particular weapon or weapons or whatever, with a specific strategy, and the referee determines how that goes, interrupting if he thinks things may not be going the way the player had anticipated, or it might be taking longer than anticipated, or some notable milestone has been reached (such as someone surrenders, or the enemy tries to flee, or someone calls for reinforcements) that might require a change in plan. Frequently small combats are handled by three posts: I tell the player the set-up, he tells me his action, and I tell him the blow-by-blow of combat until it's over.

My rule is that I post once a day, and combat never slows us down too much.

I think I had some other rules for the medium, but I can't remember them at the moment, so I'll keep an eye on the thread and see what develops.

--M. J. Young

[DevP]

If your making when, then YAY. Go for it. My best tip would be to try for a resolution system that can be handled in a single exchange. That way, it can nest well into the narration, and doesn't create any extra posts (or lag).

That might be the ultimate outcome of this thread; I'll start an Indie-Design thread once I have the beginnings of a mechanic for discussion.

We're playing Universalis...

I suspect that Universalis might be a great engine for PbP play, although I'll be eager to read up on the specific PbP contracts on the Wiki to see how you guys handle it.

The key, in my opinion, is to facilitate a PbP game that takes sufficient advantage of the strengths of the medium (disparate players, more players, time to get what you want to write just right, no slow-down associated with rules look-ups, inclusion of players who can't meet for a specific block of time, etc) so that the slow-down seems a worthy price to pay.

Precisely. For one thing, I (handwavily) found PbP games have a potential to appear more "literary". While I find TV serial or film metaphors useful in face-to-face play, I'm finding one of my more successful PbP games taking a more literary tone, as shown in the less focus on immediate action, and the potential for continuous and well-written scenes...

Other strengths/necessities of the medium:

* Stories must be multi-axial and multi-character, almost in the form of rambling epics with chararcters walking into and out of narratives (as players may themselves walk in/out of play, and the story should remain robust; but this may be more Social Contract than gameplay)

* While we're at it, multi-threaded; proscribe how multiple story threads can happen contemporaneously without breaking continuity.

[Andrew Norris]

I've been following a PbP game on another forum that has run into exactly these issues. The GM obviously has a focus on Sim/Exploration of Setting, and the players are all rared up to do their Sim/Exp character bit, but you'll get a half-dozen posts of extremely interesting narrative back-and-forth between the Gm and players interrupted by a page of combat rolls that end up taking a week to complete. (It's exacerbated by the fact that as D&D first level characters, the interesting characters' interaction with an interesting environment is very limited in Gamist terms. Yeah, you have several people transported from the real world to a world of dreams, fighting bird-men in a junkyard with toy ray-guns, but it still boils down to rolling to hit and casting Magic Missile.)

I wonder if at that point it'd be best to just dispense with the Gamism entirely, as it doesn't seem to hold much interest for either GM or players... but then you're just writing a story together, eh? The idea that we need to have combats or other rule interactions in a PbP to keep it from 'just being stories' seems to come up a lot.

My preferred system for PbP would be along the lines of the role-playing my friends and I did in junior high when we didn't want to bother rolling up characters -- "Verbal Adventure". Yes, we sat around saying "I go north." "Okay, you're in a cave..." with each other, as if we were playing a text adventure. I used to think it was silly, but now looking back I'm amused that we ran plenty of games on the Lumpley Principle: "Trust me, and roll with it, and together we'll make it fun." Of course, it's a whole other ball game to do this via posts on a message board with people you don't know personally.

[mark2v]

At one point about 2 years ago I used the Amber diceless sytem for a PBP and it ran nicely. I had to tweek  the  charater genaration to fit new characters joining in mid game, but with a bit of playing I found the direct comparison of stats as a matter of resolution worked nicely for PBP..

[The Benj]

Seems to me that the new (-ish, it's been out a couple of years now, I think) Marvel Universe Roleplaying Game would do quite well for PBP. It doesn't have dice-rolling, so not only is that not going to take up time, but those people who are worried about honesty need not be. It's not a common worry in PBP, but it's a misgiving some people have, so I thought I'd mention it.

[Grex]

I have no actual experience with PBM gaming, but De Profundis is meant to be played by mail. I don't know if it is an actual RPG, though.

http://www.hogshead.demon.co.uk/NS_deprofundis.htm

Best regards,
Chris

[drozdal]

Hello

Nice Grex that you have mentioned De Proufundis.

De Proufundis has no mechanic as is (so it can't be used for other pbm or pbem), it's just a game in which you write letters to other players who participate in game (we played by mail and by e-mail - first alternative is way better) and describe your story, on which they may respond by writing theirs and so on (more players makes games "sessions" more enjoyable, but you really need someone to write to, and as i remember correctly rulebook has even option for single play when you just play with your own imagination).

Dro

[RaconteurX]

I find Time Lord, FUDGE and the FUDGE-inspired FATE all work very well for play-by-post.

[ejh]

I designed a system called "Topos" for play-by-post gaming, but it is arguably not a roleplaying game, and it's kind of debatable whether it's even a "game" in any sense.  Haven't done anything with it in a while, but some of the people who playtested it liked it.

[DevP]

I'm curious, what was special about Topos? I wouldn't mind seeing what it was about. I'm slowly trying to put together that reflects my ideas about PbP, meanwhile...