TROS in WW1

[Ingenious]

It was the war to end all wars. I think. *shrug*
Anyways, I bought this topic up becase A. nobody's done a WW1 post before I dont think, unless my searching skills are sub-par.... and B. Everyone was talking about automatic guns and shit anyways, so I figured I could throw this at ya'll.
We basically have the ground-war rules covered pretty much, what with all of the brainstorming going on in other threads. The only thing we lack in terms of a major 'modern' war, would be rules for aerial combat. Enter... ME.
Since aviation has been my life every since day ONE of it, I consider myself a reasonable sort at the information needed to come up with those rules.
So here are some of them: There are of course standard aerial manouvers from back in the day much like the traditional TROS rules for melee... however the difference being(aside from the obvious) is that it takes longer to complete these moves. So what I propose for aerial combat is that each exchange takes between 30-45 seconds for someone to manouver from being defensive, to being offensive.. in terms of initiative. Standard defensive stuff like 'duck n weave' are fine, as well as evading, climbing, diving, turning, and other aerobatic manovers and so on.(Hammer-heads, immelmans, split-s's, loops, rolls, snap-rolls, spins, outside-loops, slipping/side stepping... etc) Modifiers for range should be included of course, but flying/shooting has little to do with strength.. possibly useful for gun-jams and severe control surface movements and pulling out of high speed dives etc.
Also, due to my vast aviation library.. I know pretty much every specification of every production aircraft ever made up until about 2000. All of that comes from just one book btw...
So to attack it's all about positioning, since you're not so much fighting on a flat surface, but an infinute number of surfaces... and the only real physical part to flying is g-force. That can cause pilots to red-out or black-out. (roll endurance vs a TN to be created out of thin air by me when I have all of my brain cells focused on this)
And then the rules for the automatic guns would be the same as those thought up in other posts.

I just thought I'd see if anyone was interested in this... if so I'll research a bit more and keep you all posted
-Ingenious

[Caz]

I'd like to hear more on this, it'd be great to have a base set of flying rules.

[Jake Norwood]

Did you see the two TROS-based dogfighting threads in Indie Game Design? They're discussing WWII-style dogfighting in space. A bit eclectic, but not dissimilar from what you may be looking to write. Check 'em out.

Jake

[Ingenious]

Well Jake I glanced over the 'Star Wars' conceptual idea, and it really doesnt pertain much to flying, due to the lack of gravity.. the ability to never run out of ammo, no gun jams, no ground fire(unless you're doing something like off of Hoth), no bombing, strafing, etc. And because it's in space, with no gravity.. the forces imposed on the pilot are less dramatic than in actual flight.. where pushing the envelope can make you pretty much unconcious... there isn't as much skill involved in it either I think.

But back to the topic at hand, the basic moves a pilot can do are:
The hammer-head, whereby the pilot brings his plane into vertical, then kicks over the rudder once he gets zero forward airspeed, and then zooms back down. This is useful after making an attack run from the front, pulling up, and then resuming pusuit from behind.
The immelman (the traditional one) is basically a hammer-head but at only a 10-20 degree angle rather than being vertical.. and you that much airspeed.
The split-s is where you would roll inverted and pull back on the stick to do a downward half-loop. The reverse split-s is the same, except starting level, pulling back on the stick to do a half-loop and then roll level again.
A loop is well, a loop.  Self explanatory.
Rolls: same thing
Snap-rolling is accomplished by pulling either backwards or pushing forwards and then sharply kick the rudder to one side. To get out of this, neutralize the rudder and roll until level. Useful for keeping opponents guessing and losing altitude while not gaining any airspeed and overspeeding the airframe.
Spins can happen by accident after a stall, or by purposely entering a spin. To do that, raise the nose, cut the throttle, bank slightly to one side, and then kick the rudder over to the side that you banked. To recover, neutralize rudder, and level out.. oh and pull up. Useful for getting the duck out of fodge if you know what I mean.
Outside loops are done like regular ones, except you roll inverted to start, and push the stick rather than pull. Pushing too hard might result in red-out conditions.
Slippin is accomplished by banking the wings to one side, and then kicking full opposite rudder. Useful for quick loss of altitude while not gaining airspeed. To recover, neutralize rudder, and level off.
For gun jams, assign a target number dependant upon the gun's manufacture, if it's a simple gun(lower TN), complex(higher), poorly made(higher).. etc.
Flying rules though, should keep the seneschal on his feet, as he might want to keep track of everyone's airspeeds before they try a move.. because if they stall.. they just hang there for a few seconds.. wide open for a shot.. and then might lose control and enter a spin. Also it will keep them busy by keeping track of altitudes and relative position(it doesnt have to be an EXACT science though). I can figure out soon how long it would take to accomplish each manouver on average by the time someone my next post happens.(it will vary dependant on performance characteristics of which aircraft we're using)
Going into a red-out or black out should require a roll against either toughness or willpower or something associated with whether or not the pilot knows how to counter-act g-forces. (squeezing certain muscles during positive G's and yelling during negative)((this prevents some blood flow to the brain or to the feet))
More specifics as I flesh them out on paper.

-Ingenious
'Avgas runs through my veins'

[Mike Holmes]

Well Jake I glanced over the 'Star Wars' conceptual idea, and it really doesnt pertain much to flying, due to the lack of gravity.. the ability to never run out of ammo, no gun jams, no ground fire(unless you're doing something like off of Hoth), no bombing, strafing, etc. And because it's in space, with no gravity.. the forces imposed on the pilot are less dramatic than in actual flight.. where pushing the envelope can make you pretty much unconcious... there isn't as much skill involved in it either I think.

Actually, the post there has as one of it's assumptions that space operal fighter combat is more based on the ideals of WWII dogfighting than with any idea of realism in space. Basically, it's acceded that it's not realistic, but then neither is Star Wars or any of the rest of the source material. As such, you might find a lot there. Indeed, much of it looks a lot like what you have posted above.

Mike

[Ingenious]

Mike, if ya got a link to the more pertinent info of that post send it to me, because I don't feel like reading the whole entire thing. That would be waaaaay too time consuming. But I suspect they lack the specifics of performance figures and the nitty gritty stuff that might be useful to anyone who plays TROS with aerial combat... historically speaking of course. Including armament, range, etc.

The moves are normally just a standard thing, and how well they are done depends on how good the plane is.
-Ingenious