lotr rpg

[sworn enemy]

hi every1. im new here and this is my first post.  im currently working on a lotr rpg using inspiration from Ben Morgan's gaming sessions(we love you Ben... That fucking bullet is still in the air {cyberpunk}) as well as Riddle of Steel. i just would like to know if ne one has any suggestions on this. My only "game" was a d20 Mage conversion(my friend Launchpad hates the Storyteller system). Please help!!!

[Andrew Martin]

hi every1. im new here and this is my first post.  im currently working on a lotr rpg...
Please help!!!

Welcome to The Forge.

For us to help you the most, could you describe what a play session in your version of the LotR would be like, please? Feel free to make lots of analogies to either the movie series or the books.

[sworn enemy]

it would play something like this:

character creation would be according to race as well as class(if i even decide to implement a class system). Bah... fuck it. no classes.  attributes would be along the lines:
Strength
Dexterity
Stamina
Brains
Wits
Nerve(willpower)
Charm
Appearence
Perception
  there would also be a list of skills like archery, tracking, etc... i would also like my players to make up skills for their as they see fit(as long as they fit).  i havent decided how to do magic(id like to use the spritual attributes and the magic system-tweaked to fit the games needs-of Riddle of Steel). conflict resolution would be a d10+stat+(any applicable skill)=target #. thats all i got so far. very generalized.

[Daniel Solis]

What aspects of LotR do you find most entertaining? What things in LotR would you have most fun actually doing? How is your system going to stand out from the plethora of other northern European-based medieval fantasy game systems? More importantly, what play experience does your system create that no other system can?

[sworn enemy]

What aspects of LotR do you find most entertaining? What things in LotR would you have most fun actually doing? How is your system going to stand out from the plethora of other northern European-based medieval fantasy game systems? More importantly, what play experience does your system create that no other system can?

To answer your last 2 questions, none really. Im making this game for no one elses enjoyment but myself and my gaming group(and to better myself and learn some new things). I doubt it will look any different than any other medieval fantasy out there.  I really wanna see how the magic will work out in the end with this one. To answer the first 2 questions, combat, and the storytelling(roleplaying) :P. I think that if all goes well,  i will be finding a new gaming group(save one person) for this one. some ppl in my gaming group now are not the most mature.

[Daniel Solis]

What specific aspects of RPG combat do you find most enjoyable? One-on-one? Massive organized battles? Covert ops? And what sort of storytelling do you hope to encourage? Angsty melodrama? Yahoo monster-killin'? Straight-faced Shakespearean prose?

[greyorm]

To answer your last 2 questions, none really.

Don't take this the wrong way, but why make a different game, then? What do those games fail to do that you envision your game will handle better than they do? If nothing, why not simply use an existing system?

[sworn enemy]

ok... to answer gobi first, the sneaky shit is really where its at. that and the real big 1 v all battles(think the musketeer). the roleplaying and storytelling i like is really detailed and very character driven.  I want to delve more into the actual minds of my players and their characters and have them become their character(very cliche, but idgra).  the type of roleplaying i hope to see is w/o a doubt a cross between soap opera seriousness and Tarintino-esque grittyness.

to answer greyorms ????, y not. i am planning on using aspects  form a few games. ill elaborate later...

[Ben Morgan]

Hey Will, great to see you again.

My advice to you on making a game work like LOTR is to focus more on characters' backgrounds rather than abilities. Trying to make all the races "balanced" would be an exercise in futility. Get away from the idea of "character advancement" and concentrate more on "character development." In other words, a character doesn't necessarily get more powerful as they progress through the story, they actually get more interesting.

There have been LOTR threads here in the past. There's one floating around somewhere about a really simple system someone had come up with that revolved around three stats (might not be the actual names, can't really remember): Might, Finesse, and Luck. I believe the examples given were dwarves, elves, and hobbits respectively. The idea was that there was basically three ways of accomplishing things: brute force, skill and precision, and blind fortune.

When it comes to mechanics, stats, rules, etc, these days I'm very much of the opinion that less is more. I'd rather have three or four flexible attributes than six or eight (or more) tighter ones. And I'm really liking not having a set skill list.

A lot of what made that Cyberpunk game great (sorry I didn't get to finish, and sorry I didn't get to write it up here) mechanics-wise came from other games here. Cool Points is really just a more formalized version of Sorcerer's Bonus Points (in Sorcerer you don't write them down, they go straight to the roll whose description earned them). My rules for choosing description were ripped directly from octaNe (but you knew that already), and then adapted for choosing cyberware and equipment. If I was going to run the game again, I'd dump the formalized skill list, and use a system similar to Donjon (make up 5 skills, one of them broad and generalized, the others more specific).

But I digress.

I would look to some of the Forge's more Narrativist games for inspiration. Simulationist treatments of LOTR strike me as being really flat (case in point: MERP). One game in particular which you probably haven't seen yet, becase I made the mistake of not including it in the notebooks I gave you, is The Pool. octaNe and Inspectres owe a bit of their core mechanic concepts to that game (the whole idea that you're not rolling to see if your character succeeds or fails, instead you're rolling to see who gets to say what happens).

I'm also interested in who the characters in this game would be and what they would be doing. Soldiers in one of the wars? People in positions of power?

One thing that is absolutely essential fr something like this is that the characters be connected to their respective communities. D&D characters have a tendency to exist in their own little worlds, separated from the communities they ostensibly belong to. The characters in LOTR, on the other hand, are very concerned with what's happening with The Shire, for example, or Gondor, or whatever. Hero Wars/Hero Quest does a nice job with this concept, as do Spiritual Attributes.

-- Ben

[MPOSullivan]

first thing's first, welcome to the forge.  have fun and ask lotsa questions.  conversations here are always damned interresting, and i don't think i've ever heard of anyone getting flamed here.  it's nice.  

the type of roleplaying i hope to see is w/o a doubt a cross between soap opera seriousness and Tarintino-esque grittyness.

alright, this is kind of an odd crossing for a game based on LOTR, a setting that leaned more towards archetypal, Campbell-like characters and very fluid and "high fantasy" style combat.  but it is an interresting direction to take the setting off in.

if you're looking to do as you state above, i can't suggest enough the game of the Riddle of Steel.  Combat is both sleek, system-wise, and damned gritty in play.  Characters are all about emotions and they bring up more than one fight.  and while the setting that comes with RoS is quite a bit of fun, the book encourages players to "plug and play" worlds.  not to mention that with a little tweaking, the magic system is just about perfect for characters like Gandalf.  

i do agree with Ben on his assesment of the game setting.  the characters are all about their backgrounds.  i mean, you have this Tolkein guy who wrote a huge book on the history of the elves just because he knew the history.  and it's so weaved in to the story that knowing it reveals a bunch of new layers in the trilogy of books/movies.  Perhaps having a system where characters don't have skill groups so much as they do "history groups".  A character could have a rating in their race as well as their past occupations.  Thus characters could use their rating in their race for dealings with their own people or in any case where their training would help out (like most dwarves seem to be raised with axes in their hands, so you could probably use your rating in Dwarf as a combative trait.)

to answer greyorms ????, y not. i am planning on using aspects  form a few games. ill elaborate later...

these aspects might best be shared sooner than later, that way we can see where you want to go with the game that you're trying to design.  there's nothing wrong with using other games as benchmarks or touchstones.

laters,

   -m

[Daniel Solis]

So would the race rating measure, say, their "elfness"?

[Valamir]

One of the things that strike me as pertinent to a LotR campaign is the approach of each race towards the core ideal of Ambition.

Elves of the third age register little ambition but much longing for times past.  All of the Elves greatest heros belong to an earlier age.  Those still alive are presented as largely just lingering on, waiting for their time to travel to the west.  This longing for the past as resigned sadness for the present is a key feature of elf-kind in middle earth in the third age.  This longing is what makes them vulnerable to the corruption of the One Ring and why Galadriel won't take it.  She would use the power of the ring to restore elves to their status of an earlier time rather than accepting that the time of elves is over, and diminishing.

In Dwarves, ambition takes the form of obsession over their crafts of stone and metal working and assembling of great and beautiful works of artisanship...including the accumulation of hordes of wealth, both in the form of well crafted artifacts, and as the reward for their labors.  This obsessive ambition to build the most secret of doors, the most invulnerable of armors, the most deadly of weapons, the most beautiful of jewelry, the most monumental of archetecture, and the deepest of mines in order to get the rarest of metals is their own doom.  It wakened the Balrog, lead to their destruction at the hands of dragons and makes them vulnerable to the One Ring which they would no doubt use the same way as they used the 7, and suffer a similiar fate.

In Men, ambition takes the form of power and rulership.  Laying claim to territories and recieving the allegiance of lesser men.  This ambition spawned the earlier Numenorean empire, led them to try and sail to the western country themselves, led the 9 to accept their rings eagerly (suffering a terrible fate by their willingness to use power to acquire power), led Isilidur to not destroy it when he had the chance, and led Boromir to challenge Frodo.  

This approach to ambition is what makes Hobbits so unique and enables them to be the only race that can successfully carry the ring without falling immediately to its clutches.  Hobbits are content.  They are content with their lot.  Their greatest ambition is a fully belly, a mug of ale and a pipe to smoke.  They are content to work the earth and live their days within the boundary of the Shire without worrying about the world at large.  In fact, hobbits who do not fit this mold are cast in somewhat villainous roles by Tolkien.  Namely the Sackville Bagginses and Sandyman the Miller.  

If I were to do a LotR game these characteristics would play a key role in shaping the nature of the different races.

Elves: Longing
Dwarves:  Obsession
Men:  Thirst for Power
Hobbits:  Contentment


I would strongly recommend thinking outside of the box for attributes,  
Strength of character is far more important than strength of muscles.

[MPOSullivan]

So would the race rating measure, say, their "elfness"?

yeah, i guess it would.  it would be an index of both their training by their race and how steeped in their belief systems they are.  So, a character with "Elf" would probably know some minor magics, know the symarilion (i don't remember how to spell it) rather well and would probably be kind of meloncholy and aloof.  then he can also have a trait like "Warrior" to get some swordplay and combat skills, as well as the mental traits like tactical thinking and always being prepared (...or is that a boy scout?).  assign some dice to each trait and start rolling them.  i would probably have characters have a couple of traits and for any conflict, the player would add te two traits of his that best apply to the conflict and roll them together.

laters,

   -m

[sworn enemy]

ohh tiny brain...sooo much...lotr too big...saddam caught....iced t and slayer together on the judgement night soundtrack....oh too much....
Im drawing a blank.......

[Ben Morgan]

Hey, check out this thread over in RPG Theory:

http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=9223

-- Ben