The issue of pirates..

[Ingenious]

Okay, having had a thought or two on skill packets recently... I wondered about different character concepts.. and the skills they should have.
For example: a pirate.
Granted this would be some version of a sailor/theif cross-breed in terms of skill packets, but I don't want to burn both skill packets in order to be a pirate, or waste skill points gained from my MA.. so I asked myself 'what makes a pirate stand out from the typical sailor, and the typical thief?'
Answered as thus: Pirates have all of the skills prescribed in the sailor skill packet, with stuff from the thief packet like B&E, scrounging, etc. Also they are usually adept at the finer arts of kidnapping and ransom, which is absent from any skill packet. Also, looting might be considered a skill... ship-board fighting also??
So my questions are the following:
1. What sets a pirate apart from the ordinary sailor and ordinary thief/brigand?
2. What skills should be in a pirate skill packet?
3. What skills should a pirate have that are not yet created?

-Ingenious

[toli]

I was recently reading a book on pirates.  Many of them started out as ordinary sailors and sailors in the official navies.  I would include the sailor skill packet plus some other one.  

I'm not really sure what the other one would be but it might depend on the background of the character in question.  For example, pirates previously from an official navy might also have 'soldier', some might be merchants or artisants (carpenters were especially prized, and when captured, generally forced to join pirate crews).

NT

[Caz]

My 2 cents, I don't think pirates have the subtlety of B&E, you don't need a skill for that.  Shipboard fighting would be covered by tactics and whatever their weapon prof. is.
   Could be pirates who sneak up on a ship in the night in a little boat in harbor, then they could use B&E and stealth skills.  I don't have the book handy, is climbing in the packet?  Artillery?

[November Kilo]

I don't have the book handy, is climbing in the packet?  Artillery?

Yup. Both, arty at +1.  

Gotta agree with Caz.  I think what separates Pirates from Sailors is the amount of violence required.  Kinda like the difference between a Soldier and a Bandit.  Gotta go with the Sailor packet, and if you have a past of lots of pirating, perhaps Soldier or Warrior.

Other skills... Craft: ropemaking, knotwork.  Carpentry.  Sewing (sails).  Intimidation.  Leadership.  Accounting, for all the booty?

[Lance D. Allen]

I would actually use Sailor/Soldier for both pirates and military sailors, myself.

And generally.. You do need to use both packets to fit most well-rounded character concepts. If a pirate is what you are, then you'll want to use both packets toward that concept. Hybridized concepts get a little bit more difficult, and you'll have to make sacrifices one way or the other.

[Draigh]

I agree with Lance, it's the SAs that make the pirate / bandit different from the sailor or soldier, not their skills.   One thing that we shouldn't forget is that England's privateers were often Spain's pirates.  It's a broad generalization, but often throughout history soldiers have returned from war with nothing to do, and have taken to banditry and such out of boredom or starvation.  Blah blah.....

[Ingenious]

Well my reasoning behind not wanting to use two skill packets to cover this concept of a pirate is that the character in question that I am seeking is also Gifted, and one packet needs to be ritualist...

You all have very valid points though. The SA's will be covered, so don't worry about that issue too much, I just wanted to see how broad of a skill range a pirate can have. And also what a pirate skill packet would have so that I wouldn't be wasting 2 packets just to make a pirate.

Thanks.
-Ingenious

[Merritt Baggett]

I would just go with Sailor and Ritualist.  Then distinguish your character as a pirate rather than "just a sailor" with your character's philosophy; your ethics or lack thereof which drive you to violence on the high seas.

On that note, sailors and pirates in general were a fairly superstitious lot.  Keeping use of your magic discrete will definitely be a challenge on a ship.  Perhaps if you were the captain you could bully them into submission but beware of mutinies in the long term.  Other possibilities might be possible but its something that would be useful to sort out.

[Mike Holmes]

I would just go with Sailor and Ritualist.  Then distinguish your character as a pirate rather than "just a sailor" with your character's philosophy; your ethics or lack thereof which drive you to violence on the high seas.

Agreed. Adding anything else in would, to me, be adding another profession. There are limits to starting characters, unfortunately.

Alternately work with your GM on alternate chargen for the game in question. Maybe everyone can get a free profession to balance out, and to emulate a more widely experienced bunch or something.

Mike

[toli]

I would just go with Sailor and Ritualist.  Then distinguish your character as a pirate rather than "just a sailor" with your character's philosophy; your ethics or lack thereof which drive you to violence on the high seas.

I'd agree with this.  You also get the extra skills from your MA to pick up any skills that aren't included in those packets but you think your character should have as a pirate.

[Ingenious]

Again, very valid points from the lot of you. I have read the book some more in terms of skills and packets and such.. and if I were to create a pirate skill packet with my GM I will surely post it here. I would however cap the skill packet at 15 as suggested by the book. This could serve to distinguish my character from a normal sailor without having to spend MA points... and his SA's can focus on those aspects of pirate life that he strongly beleives in... and then I can use my MA skill points to further distinguish his competency in his skills. As it stands now.. He has two skill packets at 8... so this is why I should like to use his MA to make him better in a few areas. Someone brought up the thought of a pirate captain.. this is exactly the sort of character I was looking for, but omitted in previous postings.

Thanks for the help and suggestions guys.
-Ingenious

[kenjib]

To be honest, I would be a bit leary of a player taking the entire sailor package, adding half of another package on top of it, and trying to make that a single package...

[Ingenious]

Well so long as it doesn't amount to more than 15 skills in the packet I do not see why not. But it terms of fairness to the other players in the group I would say that this might not be the best option...
Yet I may also buy additional skills at the rate of one per 2 SA points.. if there is a shortage of skills that I feel would be necessary to have.. and this amounts to 3 extra skills that would be available to me for the cost of 6 SA points, and an additional 6 skills from my MA.. or I could just use the SA points to do some before-game training to attempt to lower one of the skills even further.

And while many of you might not like the idea of spending SA points right from the start, I think in this case it is an okay idea. I can write it off in the storyline as my character's drives, passions, etc being weakened by his confinement in a dungeon.. which can also account for his weak endurance and strength.. etc. I'm sure after he tastes freedom and seeks some revenge and some hell-raising and so-forth.. he'll get those SA's pack plenty fast. But then again it might not work, I could very well fail a skill test...

-Ingenious