Non Game Mechanic Alternatives to Controlling Sorcerers

[Morfedel]

I had been thinking about controlling sorcerers; some people think they are just fine, but I think many of us have had the distaste of having to watch sorcerers turn non-sorcerer characters into casual bystanders as the sorcerers steel the show, solve all the problems, get all the glory, etc.

As such, many of us have written, or read, mechanics alternatives to sorcery. Heck, I have a few myself (and do a search on my post "Ars Magica the TROS Way"  on this board for my favorite).

However, what about a non-mechanical way of dealing with them?

I had already thought about this, but seeing a below post that discussed The Black Company made me decide to post it.

Imagine, if you will, a culture where, for whatever reason, hunt down and kill each other. Perhaps its all about power, and they hate each other tremendously; perhaps its about control, limited magical resources, or what have you.

Then, your PC sorcerer, while he can solve just about anything, has to consider carefully the potential long-term cost. Sorcerers will always be on the lookout for potential rivals; the more often a sorcerer wields his magic, the more likely he will attract unwanted attention. Sooner or later, he will then find himself the target of a hostile, and potentially more powerful sorcerer.

If you follow this route, dont hold back; take off the kids gloves, and if your PC sorcerer dies, he dies.

This could also be the backdrop for a hidden society of sorcerers engaged in wars in the shadows, of alliances forged and broken, a hunt club of arcane might and death on the wind, where each sorcerer, despite his power, may see his number coming up.

As a matter of fact... I'm an aspiring novelist. I have written one book (well, its done except the final draft; I send it to an agent within, oh, 6 months I hope; maybe I'll get in print!)  I have another book idea and, talking about this idea above, and thinking of my book idea I've been working on for a long time, has made me realize this new book idea would make a perfect backdrop for a TROS campaign.

As such, if there is any interest, I may write it up and post it as an available campaign setting; if so, however, since I plan for it as a book for the future, I would need to copyright the ideas therein first, and see if doing this would meet with Jake's blessings.

Anyone interested? And, any feedback on my non-mechanical idea for dealing with things?

[De profundis]

I like your idea. The advantage of your non-mechanical approach of controlling sorcerers is the fact that it isn´t just a rule but it is a part of your setting / the background the pcs have to deal with. Therefore it can be used to spice things up, to add additional flavor to your campaign. The only drawback i can see is that players could ignore it but then, as you said, they are doomed. Maybe a combination of mechanical and non-mechanical ways of control will do the trick.

[Morfedel]

Actually, it has given me an idea; I think I'm actually going to run my setting as a TROS game... if I can find the players. Hm.....

:D

[Mike Holmes]

I think that your solution here is automatically true in every TROS game. Given that the only threat a sorcerer likely fears is other sorcerers, I'm sure that there's competition. Now, it can be more or less organized, but it has to exist to some extent. Further, who better than sorcerers to find other sorcerers? So even if they're extremely rare, they still have to worry about each other.

In any case, this idea has been proposed over and over, so I think that it's certainly supported by almost everone. Add this factor onto the normal social regulation that sorcerers would certainly face (and no, they can't ignore it), and sorcerers are quite curtailed actually.

Mike

[Ben Lehman]

Hey, why do sorcerers fear the inquisition, anyway?  I mean, they're just a bunch of normal blokes, with no magical power behind them, right?  It's not like the grand Inquisitor is actually a secret Sorcerer, using his power to root out the competition and recruit apprentices into enslavement/training, right?  It's not that they're terrified because they can see the marks of Conquer on the minds of every single soldier of the Inquisition, and their magic-draining blades cannot be turned by any spell... right?

First urge, ever, to run a Weyrth campaign...

yrs--
--Ben

[Morfedel]

I think that your solution here is automatically true in every TROS game. Given that the only threat a sorcerer likely fears is other sorcerers, I'm sure that there's competition. Now, it can be more or less organized, but it has to exist to some extent. Further, who better than sorcerers to find other sorcerers? So even if they're extremely rare, they still have to worry about each other.

I think thats a bit presumptive; as we all know, everyone runs their games differently. I, in fact, have seen TROS games where enemy sorcerers were hardly present enough to make a difference; or at least, they weren't stressed. Many posters are complaining about the levels of magic and their throwing off the game has caused me to think that, in fact, the opposite is true (in regards to the above being true of all TROS games). Making this suggestion an ever present, prevalent threat certainly changes the mix.

In any case, this idea has been proposed over and over, so I think that it's certainly supported by almost everone.

Perhaps; I hadnt specifically seen anyone post about it; granted, I havent been on the boards for a couple months, but when I was active here, I never saw a post concerning this issue. *shrug* If it is universally supported, then it shouldnt be an issue.

Add this factor onto the normal social regulation that sorcerers would certainly face (and no, they can't ignore it), and sorcerers are quite curtailed actually.

Normal social regulation? Well, perhaps... seeing some examples of the sheer weight/power a sorcerer can hurl around, and it seems less likely that a sorcerer need concern himself, barring overwhelming hostile forces. A wizard that could, say, erupt a volcano in the middle of an army or a city could probably avoid normal social regulation with ease - if he were of that temperment.

Then again, everyone's game is different.

[Morfedel]

Hey, why do sorcerers fear the inquisition, anyway?  I mean, they're just a bunch of normal blokes, with no magical power behind them, right?  It's not like the grand Inquisitor is actually a secret Sorcerer, using his power to root out the competition and recruit apprentices into enslavement/training, right?  It's not that they're terrified because they can see the marks of Conquer on the minds of every single soldier of the Inquisition, and their magic-draining blades cannot be turned by any spell... right?

First urge, ever, to run a Weyrth campaign...

yrs--
--Ben

SOUNDS GREAT! BWAHAHAHA! :D

[Ingenious]

One could also rule over the power of sorcery by implementing the idea(much like sorcerors and enemies and such) of a Highlander-esque plot.. whereby the sorceror's are drawn to battles with each other.. fighting to the death as usual. Possibly because they might be greedy and want to be the only sorceror around.. to have all of the magic to himself and THEN be unstoppable.. this can apply to all of the races, the Fey, gifted humanss.. etc. Some of the Fey might not care about these goals and so forth.. but some might. Some might care to join the fight in order to keep the 'evil' sorcerors from gaining too much power, or keeping the bad ones from eliminating the good ones.. *shrug*

Either way it gives an opportunity to incorperate SA's into this picture.
Vaguely following the 'There can be only one!' line of thinking... can keep sorcerous characters in check.. can show a struggle for power, life(everyone is still essentially mortal), freedom, etc.

Hell, Emperor Uglub over yonder in Gelure might even be calling for all of the gifted to come to him.. in order to bind them under his power.. so that there can be no rival to face him in the known world that is not directly controlled by him.. or at least is a pawn in his mind.. or a mind-slave.

There are many many many different ways to take off with this and expand on it, so I will leave you all to do this.. and just leave this general idea out there.

-Ingenious

[Andrew Mure]

An adversary I thought of to trouble a pc sorceror is an ambitious baron who sees magic as the answer to all his problems.

The baron initially approaches the sorceror as a patron offering jobs and starts off seemingly generous. The trouble will start however when the sorceror decides they'd like to move on, the baron turns nasty. He has his retainers try to kidnap the sorceror, once they are successful (the baron will get his way eventually), he locks the pc up in the bottom of his castle and starts using threats on the sorceror's livehood to force spells for the baron's interest.  

Of course the Baron has no appreciation for the well-being of the sorceror and will try to push magic's limits when if the sorceror dies of old age as the result of casting one of the Baron's spells, the baron merely intends to kidnap himself a new sorceror like any other weapon! He also knows enough about sorcery to be cautious in the manner he imprisons the sorceror so escape won't be particularly easy...

[Morfedel]

only problem with that is, sorcerers are quite powerful; even if he kidnaps the sorcerer, the sorcerer will likely be able to escape....

[Lxndr]

Every human sorcerer starts off with either "dependent on gestures" or "dependent on incantation."  This is a "free" flaw, that they get automatically.  So, tie their hands and gag them, and they can't cast spells.

And up until that point, just get some archers to surprise the sorcerer and shoot him in the leg.  Pain subtracts from the sorcery pool too, and sorcerers aren't any more observant than the average human.

[Stephen]

Also, sorcerers have to sleep sometime.

And they have to eat and drink, and are thus vulnerable to poison or drugs.

Barring constant Divination spells, they don't have eyes in the back of their head, and are as vulnerable to knives in the back as anyone.

A killing fall of 75' is over in less than 4 seconds, far too quick to cast an unprepared or unformalized spell of flight or levitation (Movement 2 or 3, volume 2 for most people) -- especially if the sorcerer's been knocked out or tied up before being pitched over....

Also, you can only cast one spell at once, and a spell big enough to get all of a mob is very likely to knock you out and leave you at the mercy of anyone who can crawl up to you with a knife while you're stunned....

Sorcerers have lots of reasons to be afraid of ordinary people who know what they are, where they live, and have time to organize a plan of action.

[Stephen]

Oooh, and don't forget the classic ways of getting somebody powerful to obey you:  Blackmail ("smite my enemy, or a letter I have left with the Inquisition will be opened"), or coercion ("find me treasure, or your beloved daughter will be slain!").

SAs can be exploitable weaknesses as well as strengths.

[Mike Holmes]

James, I think that most of the people complaining about the power of Sorcery are still playing something more like D&D using TROS in a sort of incidental fashion.

That is, as Jake has said repeatedly, Balance doesn't matter in TROS. Yet, somehow these people keep saying "Magic is unbalanced". Well, duh. The game proceeds fine anyhow.

In all the threads where people have posited blowing up the earth with level three movement spells, the answer is that no matter how powerful a thing you can do, there are always other sorcerers out there who don't want to be blown up, and who will already have taken steps to see that it won't happen. I can cite a dozen threads that say stuff like this, probably.

The point is that if you're playing the character's SAs, then you can create interesting conflicts for characters. In Nobilis you play gods. Is that a problem? Well, no you say because in that game you all play gods. But then I point out that what you're talking about again is the disparity between the power levels of differing characters. So, again, you must be worried about balance. Worry about creating conflicts for each character individually, and it all works out. Things like sorcerers as challenges for sorcerer PCs suddenly become rather obvious.

Mike

[Ben Lehman]

For ideas about what a world full of TROS sorcerers might actually be like, behind the scenes, I recommend reading the fantasy series "A Man of His Word," by Dave Duncan.  I don't want to spoil the plot, for people who care about such things, but suffice it to say that Sorcerers have a dog pile and, if you aren't at the top, you are likely to be enslaved by magic and used for whatever twisted purposes your superior wants.

Stay... Hidden...

yrs--
--Ben