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Started by james_west, February 11, 2004, 12:55:07 PM
Quote from: james_westI can say that women think like aliens with confidence because one of the valuable services my (female) techs provide is to tell me how to interact with my wife. I do what they tell me, although it never makes any sense to me, and they're always right.
Quote from: Christopher WeeksI wonder how much our hormones prevent us from playing across the chasm of sex appropriately. I wonder if women are more or less able to play convining men. And what is it that males "get wrong" when playing females that is implausible to women? Why don't I observe females playing male characters "unrealistically?" And why am I less sensitive to males depicting female behavior incorrectly?
Quote from: contracycleAnd if our dad here is going to short his own flesh and blood and excuse it by railing about how all oppressed he is, then "deadbeat" is the right title for him to carry.
Quote from: Doctor XeroYou mistake tragedy for intentionality.
QuoteThe courts have already told him that these are NOT his flesh and blood, they are hers and hers alone, and the more common reasoning given for demanding money from him is not that they are also his children but the argument that he owes his ex-wife money as part of a social contract.
QuoteYet no one objects to "deadbeat moms" -- and you might be surprised by how high a number of them there are.
QuoteSexism is not justified just because the victim is male; it is always wrong. We must end sexism against women, and this will not occur until we end sexism against ~everyone~ male and female.
Quote from: Christopher WeeksQuote from: james_westI can say that women think like aliens with confidence because one of the valuable services my (female) techs provide is to tell me how to interact with my wife. I do what they tell me, although it never makes any sense to me, and they're always right.[snip]I have a very close friend who is transgendered. She is almost certainly genetically male (having fathered two children), but in the time that I've known her, she has gone from acting as a male at work and a female out of work, to "coming out" at work through all the legal and HR hoops, on through hormone therapy and then gender reassignment surgery, and is now married to a man. I've had lots of interesting conversations with her about how the whole process seemed from the inside and what the role of hormones is.[snip]I wonder how much our hormones prevent us from playing across the chasm of sex appropriately. I wonder if women are more or less able to play convining men. And what is it that males "get wrong" when playing females that is implausible to women? Why don't I observe females playing male characters "unrealistically?" And why am I less sensitive to males depicting female behavior incorrectly?
Quote from: AnyaTheBlueBut I think it's entirely possible, and just as interesting, to construct games based on our awareness of the differences between men and women in our society without worrying about whether those differences are biologically or sociologically determined.
Quote from: AnyaTheBlueEven if we assign them incorrect causes
Quote from: AnyaTheBlueI think the reason that women play male characters "more successfully" than men play female characters largely has to do with the kind of gender role shifting that has happened in the past, oh, 50 years. Women's roles have expanded from, largely, homemakers, to include homemaking, careers, sports, and many other historically 'male' activities and roles. And for better or worse, there is far more androcentrism around in western civilization than there is gynocentrism -- certainly more women than men have experienced institutionalized discrimination. Heck, the men frequently don't seem to be able to see that it even exists a lot of the time.
Quote from: Doctor XeroThe one problem I have with this, and thus why I become frustrated with the ingrained filters so many people have about men and women, is that assumed causes controls assumed responsibilities in this country : the common assumption is that if gender differences are biological they are immutable but if gender differences are cultural they can be altered.
Quote(The same biological=immutable cultural=alterable dichotomy lies at the root of one of the religious controversies over homosexuality -- the reasoning goes that, if homosexuality is biological, it is immutable and therefore The Church must learn to accept it, but if homosexuality is cultural, it can be altered and therefore The Church must do whatever is necessary to change it to their desired goal of universal heterosexuality.)
QuoteSo long as people declare that there are traits or behaviors which are innate to men or to women, there will be prejudicial restrictions against women and men, restrictions righteously justified as "natural" and with any challenges or disobedience dismissed as "perverse" and "unnatural".
QuoteFor RPGs : through game system, the game designer sets the default for what is considered "perverse" in his or her initial game world.
QuoteActually, I have personally experienced institutionalized discrimination and oppressive gynocentrism -- I have also studied it. It occurs primarily in the areas of child care (a woman who picks up a crying child is motherly, but a man who picks up a crying child is a potential pedophile -- automatically); domestic activities (many women who complain about cooking all the time mock men who cook well as effeminate); and emotional freedom (I still recall one supervisor who ostracized me because he spotted me crying once and he could never forgive my transgression of male emotional taboos). It also occurs when one is the lone male in the Women's Studies Program.
QuoteI have known a number of men who have successfully played female player-characters with enough practice.
QuoteDindias and Wood and Ares have all done numerous studies on how people reinterpret their initial impressions to conform to gender role prejudices once they discover a variation off conventional gender roles has occurred.
QuoteFor RPGs : this means that efforts towards recognition of gender roles or racial bigotry or homophobia or anti-Semitism will still be ignored by those players who are determined to ignore them. We do what we can, but we must accept that we can not keep a particular gaming group from using a house rule that all Jewish characters take a penalty to wisdom scores, for example, or that all female characters take a penalty to strength scores, or that all male characters have a 10% likelihood to beat their wives, or whatever bias appeals to that particular group.