Stances In Actual Play

[jburneko]

I'm not sure if that subject line is completely correct but it was the best I could do.  I was wondering if anyone else, especially those of you who dabble in Narrativist Techniques, has observed the following phenomenon during actual play.

Every since I switched my GMing style my players have started to refer to their characters in the third person.  Before the switch my players would always say, "*I* do such and such."  Now they say things, like, "I wonder what *she'd* do...."  There's still a lot of first person references but the number of third person references is rapidly increasing.  My players seem to actually be exhibiting a verbal behavior change when switching between Actor and Author stance.  I was not expecting this.

Another thing I observed is that the switch from first to third person tends to happen around morally abiguous or difficult situations or at points where there isn't an obvious 'right' action to take.  For example, in my Deadlands game the character Rhette is receiving nightly visitations from a vary handsome and gentlemanly stranger who appears to come in and out from thin air.  Whenever Rhette's player is doing anything she usually says, "I go do this or that."  But when in the presence of her mysterious gentleman caller she switches to, "I think Rhette would do this or that."

Has anyone else observed this or is my group just strange?

Jesse

[Mike Holmes]

I actually wrote a paper for a linguistics class that I took on just this subject. No, for real. Got an A minus.

It's pretty common to use third person. I do it all the time, as one example. For one thing, it makes it obvious when you are speaking OOC.

I've seen some groups that speak in third person exclusively. This can be somewhat eerie, as it tends to remind me of the portrayal of Role-Playing from Mazes and Monsters. The strangest part to me is when a player says: "Then Jonah says, 'Let us get out of here.'" The first part will be in the players voice, and Jonah's actual speech will be in a different "actor" voice. But as I said, this technique is uncommon.

Other people use it to distance themselves from their characters. That may be what's happening in the example you give, Jesse. This has to do with that cognative dissonance thing I mantioned recently. If a player says, "I do it," they may find themselves questioning their motives. As soon as you say, "She, does it," you are just making an accurate portrayal. At least from a comfort level, people can tend to fall into this routine.

It also goes with the Stance thought process. Yes, if I go first person, I am more likely doing actor stance and relating to the character. If I use third person, I am more likely doing Author stance. Not in every case. But the thought processes match.

Mike

[Ron Edwards]

Hello,

I suggest that first-person and third-person diction are not necessarily correlated with Actor and Author stances, respectively.

For instance, most of my Little Fears play employed in-voice techniques, and I was very definitely in Author stance most of the time.

However, I have seen players USE a correlation between the two as a way to get used to adopting Author stance. This happens in the Hero Wars game; one of the players speaks in third person a lot when making a difficult decision for the character. On the other hand, once the decision is made, he tends to switch to "in-voice" presentation.

Best,
Ron

[contracycle]

Hiya,

I think I've seent he phenomenon you mention; the sudden loss of IC viewpoint in moments of extreme moral stress.  I think it happens because the player is no in fact the character and from the Sim perspective there is a point at which the player hits and recognises a limit in their ability to think AS the character.

[Ron Edwards]

Hey there,

I'm not sure if I was unclear here or there, and the following isn't intended as a correction to Gareth (who may have been responding to another post).

What interests me is that two completely opposite trends in play can be seen across different players.

1) As Gareth describes, and as I describe for the Hero Wars player, moving to IC diction when the player is talking about going here and doing that, but to OOC diction in moments of moral stress.
2) As I described a while ago for my Little Fears and Obsidian play, in which I move to OOC diction during most action or travel sequences, but to IC diction in moments of moral stress.

(I know that, in my experience, these shifts happen to mirror Author/Actor stances. However, I stand by my point that IC/OOC is not the same as stance differences under all circumstances.)

Best,
Ron

[Mike Holmes]

I think that what you describe, Ron, may be related to the "Camera Angle" phenomenon. When you are travelling, the POV is probably from above. When you are making a personal decision, the camera is probably right in your face.

Consider how the screenplay would be written. Its screen directions and dialog. Since it's tabletop and you cannot actually perform the actions of you're character in travel, you describe the direction. In the case of dialog, you just read it.

Mike

[Ron Edwards]

Yeah! That's it. I use IC/OOC very much in terms of visualizing and communicating, and that MAY correlate with stance, but it doesn't have to.

Thanks, Mike. I hadn't been able to figure out what I was doing, and you nailed it.

Best,
Ron