House Rule: Arm Hits

[John Harper]

I'm interested in a house rule that will result in more hits to the arms. In my experience in Kendo and Aikido, the arms tend to be in the way when you're fighting, and they get hit a lot. An attacker rarely swings at an arm on purpose, though.

So, here's an idea. After you're hit, you can spend 3 CP to shift the damage to an arm. This represents a desperate twist at the last second or the fact that the defender's arms are in the way of the attack already. Like Full Evasion, you can't do this right after you attack.

Are there any problems with this? It makes arm-covering armor pretty effective, but with a CP cost. Also, if the arm that takes the hit has a shield, then the shield AV applies.

I'm waffling on the CP cost. 2 might be enough. Whaddya think?

[Lxndr]

My gut feeling says 2 is enough.  But I think playtesting will yield the result.  I'd start with 2, and if it's too common go to 3.

[toli]

One question might be whether or not the choice should really even be voluntary by the defender. One might argue that the defender would automatically try to block a blow to the head, for example.  Many people will automatically flinch and try to protect their head when attacked.  That's how my grandfather always managed to poke me in the stomach...fake high go low....(ok that's a feint but...)

[Jake Norwood]

I'm interested in a house rule that will result in more hits to the arms. In my experience in Kendo and Aikido, the arms tend to be in the way when you're fighting, and they get hit a lot.

I agree whole-heartedly.

An attacker rarely swings at an arm on purpose, though.

I disagree with every fiber of my being.

So, here's an idea. After you're hit, you can spend 3 CP to shift the damage to an arm. This represents a desperate twist at the last second or the fact that the defender's arms are in the way of the attack already. Like Full Evasion, you can't do this right after you attack.
Are there any problems with this? It makes arm-covering armor pretty effective, but with a CP cost. Also, if the arm that takes the hit has a shield, then the shield AV applies.

I'm waffling on the CP cost. 2 might be enough. Whaddya think?

I'm not sure I like the mechanic, as it puts something not in your control into your control...something that traditionally "luck" does in TROS, but really nothing else.  I do like the idea of arms being a frequent "accidental" target, though.

Jake

[timfire]

One question might be whether or not the choice should really even be voluntary by the defender. One might argue that the defender would automatically try to block a blow to the head, for example.  Many people will automatically flinch and try to protect their head when attacked.

Not that I'm trying to totally discount your thought, but the type of automatic response you're describing sounds very much like what I call a "panic" response. It's something people do because they panic, because they don't know better. As you train more and are exposed to more and more danger, the fear of getting hit lessens to the point where it almost disappears.

Well, let me rephrase that. It changes. A trained fighter knows when he's in trouble, and when he's not. But that's another topic. If you're talking about a trained fighter (as I assume you are in TROS), they're not going to display such obvious involuntary reactions.

[John Harper]

Okay, Jake is right: arm attacks are part of swordplay. In my Kendo experience, they mostly are "checks" -- quick cuts to wrist or forearm that lead to other attacks. But taking an exchange to attack an arm in TROS seems like a waste of time, unless the guy is armored everywhere else. If I roll a good solid hit, that could have been a good solid hit to the head or body, which is much more desirable.

So, I guess I'm saying: arms should be hit more, even when you're not aiming for them. How can I make that happen in TROS? Hmmm.

[gregkcubed]

you're forgetting style. It's pretty funny to chop off the guy's arm.

Well, not funny for him.

[Ingenious]

I have also noticed in our group the lack of aiming for the arms.. since we know the damage tables.. we tend to swing or thrust for whatever can result in a fatal or near fatal wound.. swings to the neck/head.. shoulders.. thrusts to the neck, head, and chest.. etc.

Our combats rarely last more than 4-5 rounds..
And when you take into account that is 4-5 seconds.. it makes combat very very quick.
I'd like to see combats that are long, drawn-out.. exhausting...
to the point that if there are multiple opponents... teamwork helps a hell of alot more, as you will be very very tired going after your fifth opponent.
Endurance therefore, can be more of a factor.. as with some characters endurance might not be so high(3).. which means that they seriously need to finish off their opponents faster.. but if that same character goes against someone in plate, with a high EN.. and this NPC playing 'possum' on defense for awhile..  it makes for a greater challenge.. FAR greater challenge.
If your combats go by too quickly to be fully enjoyable and potentially lethal to your characters... consider outnumbering them.. or have some archers shoot at each person every chance they get..

-Ingenious

[Salamander]

I have also noticed in our group the lack of aiming for the arms.. since we know the damage tables.. we tend to swing or thrust for whatever can result in a fatal or near fatal wound.. swings to the neck/head.. shoulders.. thrusts to the neck, head, and chest.. etc.

Our combats rarely last more than 4-5 rounds..
And when you take into account that is 4-5 seconds.. it makes combat very very quick.
I'd like to see combats that are long, drawn-out.. exhausting...
to the point that if there are multiple opponents... teamwork helps a hell of alot more, as you will be very very tired going after your fifth opponent.
Endurance therefore, can be more of a factor.. as with some characters endurance might not be so high(3).. which means that they seriously need to finish off their opponents faster.. but if that same character goes against someone in plate, with a high EN.. and this NPC playing 'possum' on defense for awhile..  it makes for a greater challenge.. FAR greater challenge.
If your combats go by too quickly to be fully enjoyable and potentially lethal to your characters... consider outnumbering them.. or have some archers shoot at each person every chance they get..

-Ingenious

You can bring the combat down to one or two rounds, maybe even two exchanges if you take off the other guy's arm. I have to back Jake on this one. In almost every sparring match I have been in, I have been hit on the arm or hand before the "big kill"* at least half of the time. Of course, I also have "done in" my opponents with a hit to the arm or hand as well.

* We never perform the "big kill" in sparring conditions, we always stop after the first telling blow. Lets face it, in a real fight if you loose an arm, you will most likely either be out of the fight, or trying to fight with one arm whilst missing a whole lot of important stuff, like your balance, your second arm and all the while you will be spouting blood at a prodigious rate all over the place. Gruesome, but hey, killing thine fellow man was never a pleasant thing, especially when you can smell what he had for breakfast on his breath...

[Ingenious]

I never said we 'never' go after arms... we just don't normally consider it.(Though I am craw-fishing now in order to rephrase my original statement)
We've chopped off arms in combat..
Most of the time when we had to.. i.e. walking dead.. etc.
And who is to say that hitting someone in the arm automatically means that it gets chopped off? I've seen instances in tros where plate + high TO means no appendage loss.

Then again most of us just like the decapitation factor I guess..
*shrug*
We'll be exploring the entire spectrum of combat soon enough I beleive..
-Ingenious

[Jaeger]

Going after the arms was one of my last PC's big targets... Preferably the hand/wrist area on thier sword arm.

  You get an extra die, and if you have a reach advantage you get another. You don't need to even chop anything off to win, a good level 2 wound does plenty - and your opponent may even drop the weapon!

 It's tempting to go for what I call: "The Big Kill" (killing your oppontent with one fantastic blow)
Flying heads and entrails are spectacular, and are very popular with the kids. But, The Big Kill is much easier to achieve if your opponent is not quite himself when you go for the gold.

[Ingenious]

And then there is the undead.. who care not where they are hit.
They don't feel it enough to care about which arm or leg gets chopped off or hacked at.

-Ingenious

[Gideon13]

Perhaps a better way to account for this would be to use distance, since the reason arms are hit so often is that with the classic longsword, kendo, or fencing stances they're closer (and thus come in range sooner) than the head or body is.  The lower legs are closer than the body is too, but although they're not hit in Kendo and SCA combat because they're illegal targets remember that in the battle of Wisby approx. 70% of the skeletons examined had leg wounds.

Suggestion: if the target uses a stance where parts of his/her body "stick out" ahead of the body, the attacker may target those areas (only) and treat his weapon as if his weapon length were one longer.  This would last either either party closed to shorter, standard range and the rest of the body could be targeted.  

To use this rule, though, the players would need to know what different stances look like.  Perhaps illustrations could be included in TFOB for the benefit of those who are not mundanely swordsmen?

[Salamander]

And then there is the undead.. who care not where they are hit.
They don't feel it enough to care about which arm or leg gets chopped off or hacked at.

-Ingenious

Very true, but remember these weapons were designed to fight living opponents, who are quite drastically effected by the loss of a limb...

As for the undead, might I recommend a smashing Banish 2?

[Edge]

We have only just started playing and on the weekend went through dozens of combats just to get a feel for the combat rules. After hours of constant battle the three stand out attacks we found were the swing to the arm, the thrust to the head and the thrust to the pelvis.
Swing to the arm was by far the best.  Greatsword being the weapon of choice, those arms come off pretty easily, especially with the +1 cp.

:)