Dream Sorcerers

[Old_Scratch]

I was watching "Nightmare on Elm Street" with a friend the other night and it got me thinking of applying the theme of Sorcerer - where your demon is typically only accessible via your dreams. While this does present some complications, I thought it was an interesting concept, and I came up with a couple of settings inspired by the idea, but I'm still hammering out the details, which I figure I'll do in this thread.

What I had in mind: A game where the mystical and magical by default occurs in dreams initially. Yet in Dream Sorcerer you can affect the Waking World through the Dream World. Locked in Jail? Fall asleep, wake up in your dream, reach into your pocket and produce the key! Unlock the door, and then wake up and step out the open door. The police are after you? Perhaps you can disappear into your own dream and disappear from the earth for at least one night... The point is that the Sorcerer craves power in the real world, and the way to get power in the Waking World is through shortcuts in the Dream World. I'm going to play about with the concepts, but I thought I'd provide a couple of settings to give the later and more abstract concepts something to hang on to.

Something Wicked Within (Dark Dream Horror)

Yes, there are monsters. Each of us nurtures one, something dark and troubling deepin with the subconscious, a dark self, a demon, that lurks beneath the veneer of normalcy and civility. Yet when we dream, reason sleeps and demons dance...

   Sorcerers are those who have contacted their dark selves that live in their dreams, a being that exists in their subconscious. They bargain and bind this other, fully acknowledging this entity that is not so much a dark twin, as a dark fragment of their personality. Most wise people repress the monster within, it surfaces in dreams or moments of stress or tension. A Sorcerer has engaged with that dark portion of their psyche as an equal, not as something to be suppressed and forgotten, and as a result can draw upon those dark, forbidden powers that others instinctively shy away.

   Sorcery in this setting is drawing upon the powers best left suppressed, powers that normally appear only in dreams. When dreaming, the Sorcerer enters the subconscious, and by binding the dark dream-self that resides almost wholly in the same subconscious realm, the Sorcerer is better able to control their own dreams and potentially the conscious real world as well, to the extent of even allowing their demons to not only be present in the Waking World, but to manifest in the Waking World. The dangers are great however, for the Demon may potentially dominate the Sorcerer.

   Humanity is your connection to your conscious self and the real Waking World. Repeated abuses and interaction with the subconscious demon, the dark dream-self, ruptures this link between self and the conscious world.

   As Humanity decreases, the Dark Dream-Self Demon grows and increases in power, and the Conscious Self of the Waking World diminishes, becoming a shadow of itself while the dream-self becomes more fleshed out. When humanity hits zero, the conscious self is suppressed and potentially lost forever as the subconscious self with its sinister needs possesses the Sorcerer's body. Many of those who commit inhuman atrocities, such as serial killers, are those whose own real personalities have been suppressed by the demon self.

   The demon is the subconscious self that is actively suppressed, lest we become monsters ourselves. For some people, it is a dark id, cruel and selfish and petulant, while for others it is a dark super-ego: cruel and domineering and sadistic. The demon lurks there in the darkness of the human soul and it is instinctively hidden away and neglected by the conscious self. Yet at night, it sometimes lurks forth and some are willing to bind it. Being of the subconscious and of the Dream World, the Demon is able to wield and use powers normally beyond human ability. The Demons of Something Wicked Within may not begin with a Power bigger than the Sorcerer's Humanity. The Demon gradually grows, increasing in Power and Abilities. Each time the Sorcerer loses Humanity, the Demon gains a new Ability and increases in Power, Lore, and Stamina as it grows. Should its Sorcerer increase in Humanity, the Demon's power ebbs away and it loses a point of each and an ability.
The demon initially only manifests itself in the dream world, riding as a parasite in the mind, but when the demon's power exceeds the humanity of the Sorcerer, it is able to appear in the real world, either as a parasite, a voice in the back of the mind, or as an inconspicuous demon, usually appearing as one's own shadow. When its power is greater than the Sorcerer's humanity, it can appear as a Passer demon, bearing the very same appearance as its Sorcerer – a very potentially dangerous proposition.

   To appear in the Waking World, the demon must be brought across from the Dream World, requiring a Dream Lore test. To be forced back into the subconscious, it requires an exorcism roll.

Influences:
Movies: Nightmare on Elm Street, The Cell, Psycho, Buffalo Bill and Hannibal Lector of Silence of the Lambs, Bradbury's Something Wicked This Way Comes, Mulholland Drive, Picnic at Hanging Rock, Closet Land

TV: Twilight Zone's "It's a Good Life" episode (Anthony, who wishes people into the Cornfield.Corn Fields), Fox's Millenium TV series, Lars von Trier's The Kingdom Mini-series

Books & other culture bits: Gaiman's Corrine, Naked Lunch, Son of Sam, a pop-reality of Freud meets Goya, Geek Love.

[Yokiboy]

Very cool Old_Scratch, I like it.

TTFN,

Yokiboy

[sirogit]

Its an intereasting note that I'm running a Sorcerer game with a demon that lives in dreams.

That's some really great stuff you got there, my biggest concern would be that the Humanity defintiion is narrow.

The rules I figured for someone trying to stay up would be a Will roll every few hours, and a Stamina roll, losing creates negative modifers to all actions out of drowsiness(Both having penalties for later rolls, bonuses for consumptious of drugs.), do you think losing Humanity would also mean loss of control over your state of conciousness, ala Mullholland Drive or Fight Club?

You may want to consider using ideas from the supplement "Inside", paticularly, the crossover abilities.

[Old_Scratch]

Its an intereasting note that I'm running a Sorcerer game with a demon that lives in dreams.

Is there a write up of this? Would you care to share it?

That's some really great stuff you got there, my biggest concern would be that the Humanity defintiion is narrow.

Well I was writing up three different settings for this theme at the same time, so to distinguish them I narrowed each of the setting's definitions.

This particular setting is for a horror type of game, with your demon becoming more and more powerful as the sorcerer weakens. In a sense, someone like Freddy Krueger from the Nightmare on Elm Street movies is a Demon who has taken over and seized its Sorcerer. Spring-heeled Jack would be a Victorian Demon running amok, as would that Monkey Man from New Delhi that was causing a scare a couple of years ago.

So what definition would you use for Humanity? Or do you think I should implement a second definition?

The rules I figured for someone trying to stay up would be a Will roll every few hours, and a Stamina roll, losing creates negative modifers to all actions out of drowsiness(Both having penalties for later rolls, bonuses for consumptious of drugs.),

Staying awake and falling asleep are both issues. The Lore Skill would become something like "Lucid Dreaming" in this particular setting-scenario. You could go into a Meditative Trance by making a simple Lore or appropriate Cover. Waking up would take a Will.

I don't want to make too many rules about sleeping and waking, if its around the character's regular sleep rhythms it shouldn't be too much of a problem. As for the penalties for exhaustion and nightmares, I'm not sure how to work it necessarily... I don't want people to have huge penalties as if they've been wounded for missing a few nights of sleep, but on the other hand, I want a drug-fuelled exhaustion to be an issue as well. Is there something else I can do rather than dump in heavy dice penalties?

do you think losing Humanity would also mean loss of control over your state of conciousness, ala Mullholland Drive or Fight Club?

Fight Club. I dunno how I forgot that one - instead I'd say that in the former case, Naomi's character had snapped and come divorced from reality, dying alone in her room, while in the former case, Tyler (the demon) had possessed his Sorcerer.

I want humanity effects to vary whether the Sorcerer was in the dream when he lost humanity or when he was in the Waking World

You may want to consider using ideas from the supplement "Inside", paticularly, the crossover abilities.

I've read "Inside" and I've decided to reread it in light of this - its got some great ideas. In particular, I'm interested in how Clinton keeps the game from being entirely about the "Inside", instead the "Outside" is also a place for dramatic events - I don't want this game to be all about Dreams, but about what happens to a person who is torn between a dream world where they have power and a Waking World which suffers due to the choices that Sorcerer has made.

[Old_Scratch]

I thought maybe I'd outline a few of the denizens of this setting to highlight some of the potential to the setting.

Old Ones: "Old Ones" are mostly great and powerful Dark Dream Self-Demons who once entered the real world, absorbed their sorcerers, and were finally sent back into the dream world where they still lurk. Such entities still take an interest in their living relatives or may be Contacted, Summoned, and Pacted by those of their blood or holding an artifact that the original binding Sorcerer once held. Old Ones are thus capable of carrying out all rituals except Banishing, in that they are able to Contact, Summon, Bind, Punish, and Contain any Undead that they create by killing in the Dreamworld or any of the Beasts that they create. They have no power over Pagan Things however.

Pagan Things: Pagan Things reflect our collective darkest fears. The subconscious dread of countless sleeping minds have coalesced to create all manner of non-human Pagan Things that are comprised solely of and fed by fear. Some are easily identified, giant snakes and spiders being the most common, although black dogs and cats abound as well. Others are less defined and far more mysterious, such as the Thing Under the Stairs, the Monster Under Your Bed, and The Thing Right Behind You. All can be Contacted, Banished, and Summoned, but almost none of them are capable of being Bounded or Pacted. Summonings and Contacts with such Pagan Things are often accidental or an act of malice by another Sorcerer.

Beasts – Dark and dire Beasts can be crafted from the Dreamworlds by Sorcerers and Old Ones alike, and imbued with a life of their own, but true intelligence is denied them. The ones crafted by humans often look like massive, dark, hulking shadows of real animals, while the Beasts crafted by the self-aware Old Ones are flashes of shadow, claws, and teeth, the unknowable and unseen shadow of nightmares. While they can be Contacted or Summoned in the Waking World or the Dreamworld, lacking any real intelligence, these Beasts cannot be Bound by Sorcerers (although the Nightmare Beasts can be Bound by the Old Ones or Commanded by them), they can be Banished if the venture into the Waking World and can be Banished and Contained in the Dreamworld.

Undead – The Old Ones frequently prey upon Dreamers in the Dreamworld. While few fall victim to them, those that do are often Bound to the Old One forever until freed by another through the use of Containing the soul of the dreamer into an object-artifact from their living days are being Banished by the Sorcerer. These Undead crave Final Rest except for a few maddened or depraved souls. These Undead can appear as Zombies that can be Summoned by the Old One based on a Lore test or they can be Ghosts that float about disembodied or are trapped and Contained by the Old One themselves.

Ghosts – Most Ghosts are covered in the Undead above, but some human dreamers that die in their sleep have an inkling of the truth about the Dreamworld and a reason to persist, and thus their souls can venture forth into the Dreamworld to help those they love or care for. Such Ghosts can be Contacted and Summoned, but never Bound, or Contained. Any attempt to Punish them by their living, dreaming connection simply breaks the bond between that individual and their Ghost.

Some examples:

The Old One: the obvious example for an Old One would be "Freddie Krueger", although any serial killer or mass murderer in history could possibly fit this as well. These are the big guys in the Dreamworld that present a menace to Sorcerers who muck about too long in the Dreamworld. I just thought of another creepy example of an Old One - that freakish Pastor/Reverend Kane that appeared in Poltergeist 2 I think... He's a great example of an Old One, as is the Reverend that appears in the Dark Future short story and novel "Route 666". Lastly, the most contemporary example is "Samantha" from "The Ring".

Pagan Things: Here I'm actually thinking of two places: The demonic house from Gaiman's "The Thief of Always" and that wierd jutting of rock that is at the heart of the movie "Picnic at Hanging Rock". Also applicable I suppose could be Simon's talking Pig Head from "The Lord of the Flies". A more comedic example would be the monster under the stairs in "The Munsters".

Beasts: I was kind of drawing a blank on this one, but in the comic "Cloak and Dagger", Cloak would absorb people into his cloak and there in the darkness lay monsters that devoured people. From "Poltergeist" I would say that the little demon clown doll and the evil old tree were all Beast Minions of an Old One.

Undead: For bloody zombies in body bags acting at the behest of an Old One, the first Nightmare on Elm Street is a classic, as is the later sequel when we see how Freddie has contained the souls of those he murders - their faces are squirming under his flesh. The gray monster fish in "The Thief of Always" is another example of "Containing" souls of the living.

Ghost: There's a lot of great examples of Ghosts, but I'm going to use the cheesiest example I can think of because it fits perfectly. Again, drawing upon Poltergeist 2 - I think - when that old short psychic woman from the first one dies in Poltergeist 2, she appears in the Otherworld to help, or maybe it was the family's grandmother - I forget, but its a perfect example of the dead having a job to carry on in the afterlife.

Looks like I just added a few more films and the like to my list of inspirations! I can't believe I forgot the Poltergeist films and the Thief of Always! I should add the Ring too!

[sirogit]

It's just one demon without anything explicitly in the setting about dream-demons. It's abilities are Travel(Jump between dreams), Hint((Used mostly offensively), Taint, Perception(Other's dreams.), Perception*(A nightmare to give someone), Shadow(Can effect the light of the real world), Link. Desire for Sensual Gratification, Need for Diary pages of its victims. I'm rather impressed with my player for it.

You could always just assign penalties free form (You've been up for three days on crank? Well the trial is going to go a little bit harder.), or perhaps penalties only on speicifc actions, like keeping your cool.

Actually, now that I think about it, your Humanity definition would work very well if there's significant thematic content occuring in the dream world. I just thought you might consider something like, "Resolve to face reality", something that's very about the dreamworld stipulation, but could be applied independant of it.

Cool demon definitions.

Another film I would add for reference would be "Brazil".

[Ron Edwards]

Descriptors for Stamina, Will, Lore.

Suggestions/examples for Price and Cover.

That's what I need now.

Best,
Ron

[Old_Scratch]

Hmmm... Prices I'm going to have to work on - strangely enough, that's one of the last things I remember.

Some Potential Covers:
Black Metal Fan/Musician
Bum/Hobo/Homeless/Wino
Carny
Convict/In Patient/Prisoner
Crank Cook/Street Chemist
Freudian Psychoanalyst
Home-Schooled Child
Horror Writer
Housewife
Insurance Investigator
Internet FanFic Author/Mary Sue
Junkie
New Money Entrepreneur-Millionaire
Nightmare Haunted Veteran
Nun/Priest/Reverend
Outsider Artist
Paranormal Investigator
Petty Crook
Prison Psychologist
Professor of Romance Literature
Retired --- (Pick another profession)
Smart Boy/Girl at School
Street Dealer
Tabloid Journalist
Tattoo Artist/Body Piercer
Telephone Psychic
Tarot Card/Palm Reader
Tormented Artist
Toy Designer/Engineer
Trailer Park Trash
Troubled Youth/Youth at Risk
Wannabee Wiccan

I think that list of Covers goes a long way to giving you a sense of the feel that I want for this sort of game...

Stamina Descriptors

Dying – Cancer, a weak heart, failing organs – you sense that your time is just around the corner. Your body has betrayed you, but you are desperately hanging on for some particular reason...

Prison Physique – One look at your frame and your old school ink and people know your gym was the exercise yard of some high-security prison.

Steady Diet of Cigarettes and TV – Your body has been honed by the modern age of cable television, beer, potato chips, and a comfy couch. In other words, you look like shit.

Strung Out on Crank/Pharmaceuticals – Lean and gaunt and skeletal, you're only strength comes from what little desperation you can eke out of your famished and punished body.

Wheel-Chair Bound/Disabled – It could have been a wartime incident or an automobile accident, or a birth or congenital defect, but whatever the reason is, you're at a disadvantage in society, being severely limited by your disability.

Will Descriptors:

Academically Trained – You spent a bit of money and now have a piece of paper certifying that you've jumped through the hoops.

Fixated – You're desperate for something more, something outside you that you constantly fix your full attention on, both a source of strength and weakness.

"Just a Little Too Tense" – You're wound tighter than spring. The intensity of your stare makes other people uneasy.

Sensitive – You perceive things that other people ignore or overlook. You experience a world different from that those around you experience.

Serene – This world can be a really sh*tty place, but for everyone around you, you are an island of sanity and decency even in the thick of it.

Lore Descriptors:

"In Depravity There is Wisdom": You have done a lot of things you should be ashamed of. Maybe you never had a conscience, or maybe you're just good at quashing it, but by exploring the dark side of your personality and your world you've learned a great many things. Sure the nightmares were difficult, but that was just another realm to explore as well. And now that you've plumbed those depths, you've gained greater power than you would have ever thought... Pity the world...

Mysterious Origin – Nobody knows who your parents are or what your early childhood was like, but its apparent that you're different from everyone else... very different...

Narcoleptic – You have dramatic sleep onsets where amidst your work or play you instantly collapse asleep. Doctors claim it is simply a case of Narcolepsy, but the dreams you have during these fits are unlike any dreams you normally have at night...

Night Terrors: You suffered Night Terrors as a child. Perhaps it was the medication or the experiments, or it could have been something you taught yourself, but you learned early on that there was more to your dreams than most people believe.

Premonitions: Perhaps it could have been a "gift" from your family, your destiny, an act of the divine, or some "sixth sense" you tapped into, but you've always had premonitions and have always watched tomorrow unfold in your dreams. Aware of this, you've gradually explored your powers and are not only close to mastering your abilities, but have discovered a remarkable amount about the Dreams that provide you with your power.

Occult Experience/Training: Perhaps you were a skeptic regarding the paranormal or an academic investigator, but somewhere along the way something convinced you, made you a believer, and spurred your own researches into the unknown.

Occult Library: "Hungry man, reach for the book: it is a weapon" -Bertold Brecht.

Waking World/Dreamworld Mentored: You have a mentor or mentors. They may have trained and taught you in the Waking World: your satanic cult parents, your stern Roma grandmother, or the Order of the Rosy Twilight. Or they may have come to you in your dreams: the man that claimed to be your "real" father, your kindly grandmother, or the voice from the cellar in your dreams. They introduced you to your own little dreamworld, a place where you have power and knowledge... and friends...

That's just what I've got so far... I've been kind of developing the settings first and allowing the character-oriented stuff to percolate.

[Yokiboy]

I better stop reading this thread, it's messing with my vision for my own game!  ;)

Seriously though, great stuff. As a huge fan of the Nightmare on Elm Street flicks as a teenager I could definitely get into this setting.

Thanks for sharing,

Yokiboy

[Ron Edwards]

A quick commentary on your descriptors ...

I do get the idea about the Covers, I think, but I also think you should not offer a list but rather the idea itself - let the players come up with its applications from scratch. (same with Price)

"Mysterious origin" offers no meat; I'd lose it.

The two "occult" Lores ought to be folded into one, I think.

Otherwise awesome!

Best,
Ron

[Old_Scratch]

Here's another Dream Setting as well that I'm playing about with. This one is probably more conventional and familiar for role players.

Dreams Beyond Time and Space (Cosmological Dream Horror)
or Beyond the Pale

Something lurks out there, beyond time and space... We feign ignorance and suppress our unease, but when we sleep, somewhere deep within the primitive reptile-part of our mind, we remember their ancient manipulations, their tampering with our very humanity... and their inevitable return... It is in our sleep when we may cross to that void where they lurk...

   A Sorcerer is someone with the madness and the genius to transcend the confines or our existence, grasping for something more... and something terrible... Perhaps Sorcerer's are an evolutionary step forward or some ancient gene-tampering has given them unprecedented powers. Maybe the Sorcerer has been trained from within a cult, been subject to innovative and dangerous experimentations, or more classically, has read a forbidden tome, researched arcane rituals, or heard whisperings deep in their mind...

   ...regardless of the access, the Sorcerer is someone with ultra-cosmic perceptions and see beyond time and space, peering deep into the abyss, the edge of the cosmoverse and bargaining with those who reside there. The physical body cannot travel to the Abyss, but the sleeping or meditating consciousness can defy physical and natural laws and venture forth to where no human should journey. It is in this transgression of the natural boundaries during periods of sleep or trance or meditation that a Sorcerer can trigger powers and abilities other humans could only dream of through the assistance of a demon of the Abyss.

   Sorcery is tapping into a power from beyond our universe, an Abyss from which no light or matter exists. This power is granted through the patronage and binding of demons, squamous and horrifying entities that skulk in the abyss, biding their time for their fateful return to our reality, the Waking World.

   In contrast to the emptiness of the void and the cyclopean and inhuman entities, Humanity is your grip on sanity, human inspiration, and reality. The malefic and alien patrons of the Sorcerer are a challenge to this: the demons are entities that seek to invade and destroy our reality, the abyss and their powers are blasphemous and sacrilegious. Trifling with this power and trafficking with such demons inevitably invites damnation and madness.

   Should a Sorcerer reach Zero Humanity while in the Waking World, that Sorcerer has succumbed to their weakness. If their Will is lower than the Stamina, they have felt the void within and die of a massive heart attack, whereas if their Will is lower, their insignificant monkey brain has collapsed under the cosmological horror and majesty of the Abyss and its occupants and they have gone irrevocably mad.
If the Sorcerer loses their last point of humanity while in the Dreamworld – with their mind touching the Abyss, their personality and soul are obliterated as the Demons of the Abyss devour their soul and use their body as a husk to invade reality, bloating the Sorcerer's soulless body with their inky, tentacled, sanity-destroying bulks. Being fully possessed by the minions of the Old Ones from the Abyss, the flesh puppet that was once a Sorcerer continues to carry out their nefarious scheming in our reality.

   These Demons of the Abyss are inconceivable monstrosities that existed before the universe and will be the end of it. Lairing beyond even the coldest and darkest realms of space in the Abyss and comprised of something far more mysterious than Dark Matter, they eagerly await their triumph and the destruction of existence. Until then, their alien minds steal forth, whispering into the dreaming minds of mortals to further hasten the end of meaning and reality.

   The Demons of the Void/Dreamworld that most Sorcerers summon are naught but the lesser servant creatures of these alien anti-gods, yet even these modest entities are worse than even the most depraved and perverse imaginings, more terrifying than any night terror. They begin as Parasites, but can evolve into Possessor Demons that gradually replace the Sorcerer's organs as humanity is lost, or into Passer Demons that are given birth painfully by the Sorcerer regardless of sex.

Old Ones – (Power 11+) The Old Ones are simply those entities of the Abyss that loom on the periphery of reality and the cosmoverse. The Old Ones are the monstrosities of the Abyss, those creatures that defy imagining – each is "as small as a world and as big as alone" (to quote e e cummings). If they so desire, they can be Contacted and Summoned,  as well as Pacted with, although their alien intelligence means that they potentially interpret the Pact differently than the Sorcerer would expect.

Beasts – Beasts are those humans or animals infested with wayward Demons. For whatever reason, some of the demons become merged with their host and lose their identity, being severed from the Abyss, and both demon and host have become mad, merging into a nightmarish abomination. Beasts are most frequently encountered in the Dreamworld, hunting on the edge of sleepers' dreams, but a handful have manifested in the world. Both can be Contacted, Summoned and Pacted with as they still remember a fragment of their nature, however those in the Waking World are much further from the Abyss than those in the Dreamworld and consequently there is a +2 die penalty.

Pagan Things – Humans are perhaps not the only ones who dream. If there are others, than they may still linger in the Dreamworld. Perhaps the Serpent People who preceded humanity lurk on only in dreams, extinct in the Waking World but lingering in the Dreamworld, thus explaining many people's fear of snakes in their dream. Perhaps some of the higher animals dream, and their collective dream is represented by an archetypical animal that tries to sway humanity from approaching the Abyss, such as The Dog, while others madly encourage humans to venture nearer, such as The Snake, while a few cynically watch on and offer no help at all, as does The Cat. Nearly all Pagan Things exist only in the Dreamworld and can only be Contacted and Summoned in the Dreamworld and Pacted with. If a Sorcerer sleeps next to a pet animal that is well cared for, they have a +2 bonus to the Contact, Summoning, and Pact as their pet's contribution to the Dream Archetype Animal makes that Pagan thing more predisposed to it.

Ghosts – Most people die and their consciousness dissolves as brain death occurs. A few extraordinary individuals die somewhere between the Waking World and the Dream World and are trapped in the border, capable of appearing in both the Waking World and the Dream World. This half-life suspended between the two worlds is either accidental or intentional. If accidental, they crave Final Rest, which can be effected by an exorcism modified by the circumstances of their death. If this existence is intentional, then if banished they simply retreat from one World to the other and may return at the same time in the next lunar cycle. Both can be Contacted, Summoned, and Bound.

Undead – There are a number of possibilities for the Undead. Some dreamers, typically not Sorcerer, accidentally or intuitively approach the Abyss and have their reason obliterated, and while they may live and act, they no longer have souls and carry out their routine actions, acting as Zombies. It is reputed that the famous voodoo ceremony to make Zombies usually entails sending the victim's soul to the Abyss, while many of the loa that are summoned are Old Ones who may then control these Zombie vessels. It is possible that a person in the waking world can become a Zombie when temporarily possessed by "hopping" demon, which devours their soul and leaves them a Zombie which can then be controlled by the Demon as well.

Influences: Lovecraft's Cthulhu Mythos, Clark Ashton Smith's "The Treader of Dust", ICE's Dark Space game supplement, the video game Dreamseed, and the movies John Carpenter's In the Mouth of Madness, John Carpenter's The Prince of Darkness, The Hidden, Event Horizon, Cronenberg's Existenz and Videodrome, and Quartermass and the Pit (also known as Five Million Years to Earth).

[Old_Scratch]

A quick commentary on your descriptors ...

I do get the idea about the Covers, I think, but I also think you should not offer a list but rather the idea itself - let the players come up with its applications from scratch. (same with Price)

You lost me here, do you think I'm being too leading by adding "Tormented Artist"? In other words, I'm taking a concept: Artist and turning it more into a character concept, thus potentially limiting the options available to players?

"Mysterious origin" offers no meat; I'd lose it.

I like it a lot, but I can see how in Sorcerer it lacks drama, rather being some mystery that doesn't immediately engage the Player into their community and story. I'm still trying to shift from a more traditional gaming mindset - this sort of advice helps. Consider it gone.

The two "occult" Lores ought to be folded into one, I think.

Thanks, they're really just derivations of the same core concept.

I'm hoping that someone else might have some descriptors, covers, or prices that immediately came to mind when reading any of this stuff. A fresh, different perspective on this material would be really invaluable. Bailey has given a bunch of great suggestions that have a lot of promise for the Something Wicked Within setting over at rpg.net (perhaps he can cross post it here - its great stuff).

[Old_Scratch]

The following is my favorite setting so far, a wierd Baroque Fairy Tale fantasy in the Dream Otherworld in the vein of Sandman or the more bizarre elements of Whispering Vault and Nobilis.

Playground of the Gods (Baroque Dream-Fantasy)

The only time we may transcend the mundane is when we dream, when the trappings of the physical world which bind us to mediocrity unwind and we discover the whimsy, wonder, and horror of the reality beyond our rules and symbols and paradigms, a world of magic rather than the workaday world of mediocrity. In truth, our Waking World is a gray, drab, but safe and predictable place relative to the madness and inspiration of the Dreamworld.

Thus Dreaming is when we escape from our humdrum lives; our sleeping minds, drawn by the color and spectacle of the Dreamworld, tentatively nears these places, a place both grotesque and amazing. It is said that much of the greatest art and poetry and inspiration comes from those who tap in to and capture a small part of that magic. Sorcerers are those that do not lurk passively as do most dreamers, but tap into and seize part of that inspiration and experience and power of the Dreamworld. The Sorcerer, through their connection with the Dreamworld wields more power than any other human, but even the Sorcerer is but a thief, a parasite, in relation to the awesome power of the entities that shape and rule the Dreamworld.

For the Dreamworld is not ours, we are but mere witnesses to the imaginings of entities far greater than ourselves. Our own sleeping minds rarely ever venture into these imaginings, but rather flit about the periphery, lest we never return, for the Dreamworld is so beguiling that to experience it makes the Waking World seem excruciatingly tedious. Yet the Waking World is our birthright and its best if people stay where they belong and accept their place...

Yet the Sorcerer flaunts these rules. A Sorcerer is one who realizes that dreams are the closest humans can come to divinity – and that divinity is found only within dreams... Sorcerers are those humans who reach further than others and dabble in this supernatural realm of the gods, one accessible only while dreaming. When we dream, we trespass into the playground of gods and devils.

Sorcery in this setting is the ability to defy our nature, to surpass our own limited imaginings and to skirt about in a reality ruled by things far greater than ourselves.    

Humanity in this setting is your attachment to reality – knowing that despite the wonders beyond, humanity is meant to exist in a world of routines. A person whose humanity declines has problems staying in the real world, and their mind constantly wanders, mulling over the delights and terrors in the dreaming world. As humanity nears zero, the Sorcerer may lose themselves in the horror and marvels of a world where we do not belong and have problems distinguishing between the human world and the reality beyond.

If a Sorcerer reaches humanity zero while in the Dreamworld, their minds become trapped in the world beyond, their mind awake but cast adrift, and they forget their mundane selves, their physical bodies, that starve, turning into withered husks while their souls becomes noticed eventually, inevitably a cruel fate and they may be warped into inhuman minion, trapped in jar for display, or devoured by some entity like the Old Thing in the Bog.

If the Sorcerer is in the Waking World when they reach Humanity Zero, it means that they have become part of the Dream in the Waking World and are no longer human: the Sorcerer is possessed by their Demon, carrying out its deeds in the mundane physical world and then retreating back into the dream with the Sorcerer's body, heavily warped and transformed by the Dream Presence of the Demon.

Demons are often the servitors of the dream world and reality. Dragging one forth into the real world gives one power, while binding one within the dream is far less dangerous. Demons are a mixture of the whimsical and the grotesque: a grumpling that once served the Goblin King, a sliver of the night that the Moon Queen absentmindedly misplaced, or the thought child that Absentia and the Prince of Fools conceived and then neglected. The demons are the living artifacts and inhabitants of unimagined vistas, or the demons, trolls, goblins, and bestial minions that slave away at the behest of the supernatural entities that command them. But what may be the tools or slaves of deities may become the masters of mortal sorcerers if the sorcerer fails to control them. Running amok in reality, these minions can become gods themselves if humanity is careless...

Old Ones – these are the gods of the Dreamworld and are the creators of the cosmos. Typically they are remembered by humans in vague and poorly understood terms through fairy tales and myths. They could be the Horned King, Queen of Hearts, Baba Yaga, The King of Rats, the Seelie and Unseelie Courts, the Prince of Swords and the Prince of Fools, the Stranger, Old Misery, the Green Man, and a whole host of other entities beyond imagining. They are the gods; they created and shaped the Dreamworld. They cannot be affected by any of the rituals and may not be pacted with – one can only hope to entertain them.

Pagan Things – These are those entities that may have once been part of our world, or are entities of some power in the Dreamworld. These could represent those such as the Fey Courts that once ruled the wilds of the earth, or the great sentient trees that were among the first entities created in the Dreamworld when it was young. Uncle Bear, Grandfather Grasshopper Legion, and Constant, the First Dog, are examples of Pagan things that may still be bound by some ancient magic and can be bound by Pacts, but all other rituals will typically fail. The ancient rites that bound mortals and pagans have gone unpracticed and the ties between both are tenuous at best. It should be noted that Pagan Things, who either once enslaved or were once enslaved by humanity still bear some animosity towards mortals. The Big Bad Wolf, exiled here into the Dreamworld along with many of his cohort still harbors resentment and their lot delights in tormenting the dreams of the innocent. Some of these entities can be Contacted in both the Waking and Dreamworlds, while fewer can be Summoned into the Waking World. None can be Bound, but they may be Pacted with in the Dreamworld.

Beasts – Beasts are the non-sentient Dream Creatures and Minions of the Old Ones, the rulers of the Dreamworld. Some are loyal and dutiful servants, others horrid creatures of war, while a handful are forgotten and roam free. A Dream Beast serving an Old One cannot be affected by any rituals except Contain, although a free-roaming Beast can be Summoned, Contacted, and Pacted. Beasts could be Flying Monkeys, Black Goblins and Horned Trolls, Woven Shadows, Rat Minions, the Leviathan and the Behemoth, and others.

Ghosts – Ghosts can vary. Some of the Old Ones have become bored with their existence and faded away, these powerful entities still haunt massive swaths of the Dreamworld when roused from their ennui, although the vast majority of "Ghosts" in the Dreamworld are human dreamers whose dreaming minds have become trapped. Some Ghosts are devoured by Old Ones or their minions, others kept in jars or menageries for the Old One's amusement. In the Waking World Ghosts can appear as well, with Ghosts being the souls of powerful dreamers, often Sorcerers, trapped in the Dreamworld but able to manifest at certain times in a place or near an object of significance to that dreamer in the Waking World.

Influences: Miyazaki's Spirited Away and My Pet Totoro, Clark Ashton Smith, H. P. Lovecraft's Dreamlands Cycle, Neil Gaiman's Sandman (particularly Preludes and Nocturnes) and American Gods, Zelanzy's Chronicles of Amber, Grimm's Fairy Tales, Grimm, the movie Labyrinth, The Adventures of Alice in Wonderland, Peter Pan, "Bump Toad" adventure in The Book of Hunts for Whispering Vault.

[Old_Scratch]

A question for the participants here as a whole.

I like the demons of "Something Wicked Within" - they seem dynamic, starting off as weak and spindling things but as they have their needs and desire met and are acknowledged by the Sorcerer their powers can grow, and they continue to grow as they push their Sorcerer half down a darker path.

So I was writing up the types of rituals for them, and I started thinking about playing about with something that is fixed for the entire game and making it more dynamic: the initial binding rolls.

I suppose what I've been toying about with is having a very dynamic relationship between the Sorcerer's humanity and their Dark Self Demon's Power. As the Sorcerer's humanity drops, the Dark Self Demon becomes more powerful and gains in abilities. So what I'm thinking is that each time the Sorcerer loses Humanity or the Demon gains a power, the Binding Strength moves one forward in the Demon's favor, and as the Sorcerer's Humanity increases the Demon loses Power and Abilities and the like as well, shifting the Binding strength to the favor of the Sorcerer.

Thus the relationship between them is fraught with tension - the Sorcerer, by doing good deeds and turning their back upon their dark ambitions can dissolve or weaken their demon, while the demon has a vested interest in increasing its own powers and becoming ever stronger.

Is this an okay thing to twist and manipulate, or is Binding strength something that should be left alone?

I think it mechanically emulates the theme I'm looking for but don't have enough experience with the system to fully appreciate what this dynamic shift in either direction could do.

[Old_Scratch]

Something Wicked Within Rituals

Contact: Contacting your own personal Dark Self Demon typically involves that recurring dream that the Sorcerer has always had that typically takes place at night in a familiar and intimate childhood location that seems creepy and different. The Dark Self can also be contacted in Dreams that take place at a location of deep guilt and trauma, often a crime scene where the Sorcerer conducted a crime, such as the alley where the Sorcerer murdered a prostitute or the woods where the Sorcerer buried his or her little sister.

To Contact someone else's unbound Dark Self Demon requires that the Sorcerer infiltrate that Sleeper's dream or ingest a part of that person's body such as hair, blood, or fingernail or toenail clippings.

It is possible to Contact one's own or another's Dark Self in the Waking World by entering a trance in front of a mirror. If successful the Demon's own appearance will replace the Sorcerer's own reflection.

If one is able to manifest his Dark Self Demon in the Waking World and take a photograph of the Demon or some other representation, this picture allows a +1 bonus to all the Sorcerer's actions in the Waking World in relation to the Demon. It should be noted that the Demon resents such photos or drawings and will do anything in its power to destroy them.

Summon: Summoning one's own Demon is the next inevitable step after Contacting. One need only seek out and hold out a hand to draw one's Demon forth – the act of holding out the hand in the Dreaming World and accepting one's own Demon is a highly symbolic act. The act of drawing one's Dark Self out of the closet, the shed, or from the cellar or attic can require a little work, a trail of candies or toys, or dressing up as one's own mother or father and commanding to come out are all examples. Bonuses for such means of drawing out one's Dark Self are added to the Summon roll.

Summoning another person's unbound Dark Self Demon is more complicated process. Having Contacted it, one can Summon it in the Dreams or the Waking World by either befriending it with an outstretched hand or grasping it and wrestling it into one's own Dream or out of the Mirror.

Bind: While the Initial Contact and Summoning may seem like drawing forth a slightly sullen and child-like version of the Sorcerer or another person, the Binding betrays the dark nature of the Demon, for this is when the bargaining becomes. One must nourish one's own dark desires and here an offering or sacrifice helps significantly. Some examples: Bringing a piece of the school you burned down that night as an offering to your pyromaniac alter-ego who despised school, bringing your mother's tongue after all those years she harassed you, or providing the trussed up bully that tormented you as a child to your sadistic self are all ways of providing a substantial bonus to your Dark Self.

It is in the negotiation of the Binding that the Dark Self's twisted Needs become known and that the Sorcerer must acknowledge the other as an equal and promise to nurture it's petty and sick desires.

Punish: While the Dark Self is often very weak and sickly initially, the Binding ensures that a Dark Side Demon becomes more and more powerful while the Sorcerer becomes weaker. To ensure compliance, it is appropriate to the setting to torture one's own Dark Side Demons to keep them in line. Few Demons in Sorcerer will be as responsive (and resentful) as one's own Dark Side Demons. Normally a Sorcerer may automatically punish one's own bound Demon to a level equal to their Will, but this can be increased by dressing up as one's parents or older siblings and punishing the Demon or using instruments of punishment from the childhood such as a razor strop or a belt. When Punishing another person's Dark Self, follow the standard Sorcerer rules.

Banish: Banishing one's own Dark Self Demon is a difficult and trying task and usually entails a significant confrontation as the Dark Self Demon knows the Sorcerer more intimately than any other Demon could. In addition to the normal Banish roll, the Sorcerers inflict injury upon themselves, the Demon's Power versus the Sorcerer's Stamina in Fist Damage, resolved after the Banishment roll.

Contain: A Sorcerer can contain their own Dark Self in the Dreamworld by locking the Demon up in the same location it was discovered: a closet, a toy chest, the basement, attic, or shed or other suitable location.

Containing one's own Dark Self Demon in the Waking World is very difficult generally. One must physically lock the Dark Self Demon in the very same Waking World location that the Dark Self Demon was first Contacted and Summoned from in the Dreamworld. For this reason, many Dark Self Demons attempt to destroy the Waking World childhood home or other locale.

Another person's Dark Self Demon can be bound by a Sorcerer in the Dream World or Waking World in any container or locked room that is familiar in the Sorcerer's contemporary life. There is a bonus if one uses an object or location that is owned by that Dark Self Demon's Waking Self.

Any Dark Self Demon can be Contained in the Waking World in a mirror as well, although any breaking of the mirror will free it. If one tries to Contain one's own Dark Self Demon in a Mirror there is a +2 penalty. Anyone looking into the mirror will see the Contained Demon behind them, looking over their shoulder.

Bonuses to Rituals

Conducting rituals in childhood home or other life-significant locations.
   +Using a relic from one's own childhood or other significant event that your Dark Self Demon to which your Demon would respond (the knife used to murder your spouse). Often used as a sacrifice which your Demon then spirits away somewhere else.
   +Dressing as the parental figure of your childhood.
   +Bribing with candies, treats, or pornographic materials.
   +Sacrificing childhood and adulthood tormentors to your Demon.
   +Cutting or burning oneself during the ritual.