[MLwM/DitV] Getting away from Pawn Stance

[5niper9]

This will be a combined Actual Play report, because we had problems with both of these systems when we started playing them.


Lets start with My Life with Master.
Some time passed since we played and I have no notes from play, but the conclusion is more important than the play itself.
We created a master who needed body parts to create life. He was a Brain / Breeder.
One of the Minions were a big and strong but stuttering guy and the other one a very shy little girl.
Very fast he adopted the role of the evil henchman and I was unsure what to do to establish the right mood. Overtures were not in his interest and whether the master praised him (when he did villiannous things) or punished him (when he failed) the player did not get really involved.
She first went to get some overtures, but as she had to do villiany to the puppys of one of her connections she said overtures with this connections wouldn't make sense to her.
After one hour and a half the player switched to pawn stance and didn't get involved. Shortly after that we stopped playing MLwM.
I really like the system of MLwM and thought it would work without any problems, but it felt like there were more than one wrench in the gear.



Well let us now switch to our last sessions of Dogs.
I got the town from here: http://www.too-fat.com/ditv/hobbledstone.html . The only thing I changed was that I decided that Saha is pregnant. Once I GM'ed this town on a convention and it was a mediocre success.
This time even though we didn't got through the whole town it was (finally) what I expected Dogs in the Vineyard to do. It was our standart indie gaming group (Anna, Edwin and me) plus a friend of mine who played DSA (biggest german rpg) before. The three protagonists:

Br. Jack(David)
He had a complicated history and were the former member of a gang of bandits. After they attacked a Dog and everybody except him were killed he converted to the faith.
Accomplishment: I can out-shoot my instructor. (Won)

Br. Jacob(Edwin)
He came from a mountain people background. He was raised by a family in the faith.
Accomplishment: I feel accepted. (Won)

Sr. Mary Clarence(Anna)
She was a orphan and was raised in the east. She was part of some thieves and was captured. In Jails she met a Dogs who gave her faith. Later this Dogs took her to Bridal Falls and made her a Dogs.

The Dogs arrived in the evening and spotted a more or less secret meeting. They went into the barn and found out that Mehetable (aunt of Br. Jack) was the leader of a small mob who represents the old values. Mehetable told them about the 15 miscarriagesand and offered the Dogs a bed for the night. Next day they met the Steward (uncle of Br. Jacob) and were invited to eat lunch with him. Taddeus and his two wifes (Sara is the sister in law of Sr. Mary) were also there. Nothing special till now.
The dinner: The demons lead taddeus family to get aroused and get sexually attracted to the Dogs. So there were this three parallel Conflicts about getting the Dogs to sleep with them. Jack and Mary weaseled themselves out of the affair in two very cool conflicts. But Jacob got hooked in this way: He raised with "Jacob says: `The pleasure of the flesh weakens your spirit and is considered sin.´". She took the blow (reddens) and I gave with "Would you come out with me so I can confess."
He went out and the follow up conflict was about the knowledge of the cult. After a brief talk, she ran away. My dice were polarised: many 1s and three 6s. I could set him under pressure and sure I did. So he finally escalates to fighting and raises with "I push her" with 11. So I take this bunch of 1s and one six to let her bleed. My next raise "She looses the child" 12. He gives and saves the child. Great stuff.



The conclusion: This is the first time that the mechanics of Dogs work as pretty as I imagined. It was beautiful. Well I think that is because everybody could immerse into their character and played them to the end. The former games of Dogs were always attached with a touch of pawn stance. A certain distance to the character. And that didn't work for my players.

Ihave one question:
Was the raise " She looses the Child" legit? Surely the character couldn't ignore it, but it's in not really connected to the stakes (knowledge about the cult).

Greetings,
René

[Christoph Boeckle]

Hiya!

I had a similar question some time ago. I think the answer is to be found in retrospect: was there anybody dissatisfied with the raise? (I'm paraphrasing p.77-78 of revised edition.)
From my vantage point, your raise seems rock solid. It's extremely credible (this situation and these characters could easily have ended up in a mess!) and definitely to the point regarding the town. That's the kind of raise that'll really make me think and weigh it out against the stakes.

Regarding MLwM, it's difficult to tell. Perhaps you need to give it another chance like you did with DitV?
One quick general thing I'd say about playing the master for an obliging minion is that you should never praise that minion. The game is about shitty relationships, not partners-in-crime.

[ironick]

As far as I know, having her lose the child is a legitimate raise.  Raises and sees are used to determine who wins the stakes and how--they don't always have to deal directly with the stakes themselves.  That being said, I think it would have been more dramatic to initiate a follow-up conflict to determine whether or not she did indeed lose the baby due to her injury, but that's just me.

As far as pawn stance goes, I don't have much of an idea for you.  During the one DitV campaign I played in, I don't think any of us really felt that way at all about our characters--it was immersion all the way for about three hours every time.

Nick

[Andrew Cooper]

"She looses the child." is an awesome raise.  Notice the player gave and saved the child.  This is what Dogs is all about.  The player probably could have continued to See and Raise and most likely won the stakes but he was unwilling to see the unborn child die in order to do so.  Perfect. Those are the types of decisions players are supposed to make in Dogs.