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In GNS Model Discussion

8/9/2004 Tony Irwin: Risk in C/As
[color=darkblue]Folks, I'm trying to understand risk in Sim play, so that I can write a really great sim RPG! I'm trying to really nail down what I enjoy most about…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Tony Irwin, ErrathofKosh, John Kim.

8/9/2004 Mike Holmes: New 3D Model
GNS has limitations, I think we'd all agree. One of the limitations is that it doesn't address the concept of player control, other than to say that without control you…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Mike Holmes, Hunter Logan, Andrew Morris, ErrathofKosh, Marco, Artanis, Sean, Jack Aidley, Emily Care, Ben Lehman, M. J. Young, Valamir, Tobias, Christopher Weeks, Dev, Lee Short, Caldis, contracycle, Mark Woodhouse, Mark Johnson.

8/9/2004 Tony Irwin: Risk in Sim play.
I was hoping people could help me understand the role of risk in sim play. I really like recent definitions I've seen of how risk is used in gamist play:…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Tony Irwin, Ron Edwards, Valamir, Marco, ErrathofKosh, timfire, bcook1971, Walt Freitag, M. J. Young.

8/7/2004 Ravien: Step On Up driving Challenge, driving Step On Up?
In Ron's Gamism essay, he mentions how Challenge can drive Step On Up: The Challenge adversity sets up all sorts of System demands and risks to the characters, which…
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Participants: Ravien, Ron Edwards.

8/4/2004 Ron Edwards: "Shared story authorship" inquiry
Hi there, On an actual play thread, James (DJamesIII) wrote, Ron: this next question is for you, and it may be a new thread in a new forum. Is the…
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Participants: Ron Edwards, TonyLB, JamesDJIII.

7/30/2004 Valamir: Dramatism and Illusionism
In this thread Marco commented I especially liked the expansion on Simulationism--I think it's good and well wrought--but it seems to me to leave out GDS Dramatism which, I do…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Valamir, Ron Edwards, Tim C Koppang, Mike Holmes, Silmenume, Marco, M. J. Young, contracycle, John Kim, Caldis, ErrathofKosh, Sean, Lee Short.

7/30/2004 Valamir: The Model as seen by Valamir [Long. Very, very long]
A slew of threads in recent months has tackled various aspects of the model and led to some really good discussions that have influenced my perception of how its many…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Valamir, PlotDevice, Marco, Ron Edwards, ADGBoss, Vaxalon, Lathan, Tim C Koppang, Paganini, Caldis, C. Edwards, Emily Care, John Kirk, M. J. Young.

7/28/2004 M. J. Young: Simulationism: Reflexive Play?
It seems to me that Jay (Silmenume) has several times said words to the effect that we don't explore the elements of exploration, but rather use the elements of exploration…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: M. J. Young, ErrathofKosh, Silmenume.

7/28/2004 PlotDevice: Simulation: Exploration or Experience?
OK... Just wanted to get this out of my head. I am part the way through the articles on GNS, and some elements are like the electric recognition of an…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: PlotDevice, Ron Edwards, M. J. Young, ADGBoss.

7/27/2004 ErrathofKosh: Modes of Sim
I've been trying to work out what I think about Sim by reading and responding to a lot of the threads in this forum. To clarify things a bit, I…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: ErrathofKosh, Mike Holmes, Valamir, Silmenume, M. J. Young, Ron Edwards.

7/27/2004 marcus: What Play is This?
I have read the Simulationism, Gamisim and Narrativism essays (amongst others) but have some considerable difficulty in applying the definitions to many instances of actual play I have encountered. To…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: marcus, Mike Holmes, M. J. Young, pete_darby.

7/26/2004 PlotDevice: Sticky definitions or recommended reading links, please.
Hello all. I am a 34 year old 21 year experienced gamer and designer of games living in Sydney Australia. I have a couple of degrees in English and work…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: PlotDevice, M. J. Young, Ron Edwards, Silmenume, BeZurKur, Selene Tan, Justin A Hamilton.

7/19/2004 Tobias: Is there a 'GNS-questionnaire'?
Or something similar to it? So that, after a few sessions, you can get all players (and GMs) evaluation of 'what game are we playing anyway'? (This would mean a…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Tobias, ErrathofKosh, M. J. Young, Andrew Morris, Ron Edwards, beingfrank.

7/18/2004 Silmenume: Implications on use role of mechaics in Sim
I don’t know how to ease into this so – While in Gamism and Narrativism mechanics are ideally employed to allow for effective addressing, mechanics in Sim is a subset…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Silmenume.

7/15/2004 Mike Holmes: Getting Beyond GNS
How do I miss these damn threads? Somehow I missed this: http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=11837 All nine pages of it. Late in the thread, there was a lot of debate about some classic…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Mike Holmes, Eero Tuovinen, M. J. Young, Ron Edwards, ADGBoss, Doctor Xero, ErrathofKosh, Marco, Rob Carriere.

7/15/2004 Ben Lehman: CA Classification and Game Systems
Hi. This may be a "duh" to a lot of people, but it struck me very hard, and as something which isn't necessarily talked about a lot in these parts,…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ben Lehman, NOS, Ron Edwards, Matt Snyder, Marco, Bankuei, John Kim, MarcoBrucale, Tim C Koppang, M. J. Young.

7/14/2004 Silmenume: Looong post on Sim definition
By amazing and wonderful dumb luck I ran across Chris’ (clehrich) thread Not Lectures on Theory . His ideas on Structure, Ritual, and most importantly “Risk” fill in some gaping…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Silmenume, Ron Edwards, M. J. Young, Ben Lehman, beingfrank, Wormwood, Bill C. Cook, ErrathofKosh, contracycle, Mike Holmes, Valamir, Marco, Caldis, Tim C Koppang, clehrich.

7/6/2004 Wormwood: Facilitative Play
I've been working on bridging the gaps between the standard model and the technical play re-casting of it, and one of the major concerns I've encountered is facilitative play. I…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Wormwood, Walt Freitag, M. J. Young, Ron Edwards.

7/6/2004 Paganini: [Narrativism] Premise and Stance
So, it occurs to me that a much simpler and clearer way of explaining and supporting what I've been saying all week has to do with the three Stances.Ron had…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Paganini, lumpley, clehrich, Marco, Matt Snyder, M. J. Young, contracycle, C. Edwards.

7/2/2004 Eero Tuovinen: Narrativist LARP (split)
(edit) Peculiar, I didn't notice that this is a revived thread. Or rather, the inside:outside thread is a revival, and fooled me totally. I clearly should go sleep it off.…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Eero Tuovinen, Ron Edwards, sirogit.

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In GNS Model Discussion

8/12/2004 Alan: Narrativism and the Impact Character
I've recently learned some fiction theory that I think might be useful when thinking about narrativist role-playing and game design. First a disclaimer: the following is specific to this one…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Alan, Ron Edwards, Paul Czege.

8/14/2004 Victor Gijsbers: Dethroning the SIS
[b][u]Introduction[/u][/b] In this post, I will critically discuss the notion of Shared Imagined Space and its relation to Creative Agendas. I will claim that: * [i]The Shared Imagined Space (SIS)…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Victor Gijsbers, Sean, Marco, Valamir, lumpley, M. J. Young, Alan, Adam Dray, Ron Edwards, contracycle.

8/16/2004 Marco: Participationism and Sim II
In the thread on introducing a Narrativist to Sim Play, Ron said he'd tell his players this: guys, I'm gonna make decisions for your characters. I'll mainly do it…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Marco.

8/16/2004 Andrew Morris: Defining GNS Through Examples
I've been following the New 3D Model thread, and found it very easy to grasp. This reminded me that I (along with others) have difficulty fully understanding GNS. I tend…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Andrew Morris, Ron Edwards, M. J. Young.

8/16/2004 Troy_Costisick: Call of Cthullu and GNS
Heya, This post is mainly to see how much of GNS I am understanding, so please feel free to correct me on any of this. I really want to gage…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Troy_Costisick, Ron Edwards, b_bankhead, Marco.

8/17/2004 PlotDevice: Applying Business Psychology to GNS?
I am just wondering if anyone has tried to apply the kind of psychological models that are spoken about in Learning and Development and Company Culture excercises to GNS theory?…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: PlotDevice, beingfrank.

8/17/2004 Lee Short: Some Myths About Virtualism
There are a number of confusions circulating about Virtualism. In this post, I will try to expose some of them. These confusions are a consequence of the following belief: …
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Lee Short, John Kim, Marco, Caldis, Mark Woodhouse, M. J. Young, contracycle, Valamir.

8/19/2004 Doctor Xero: Simulationism analogy from paintings
[quote="in http://www.indie-rpgs.com/posting.php?mode=quote&p=131754 ejh"]I have three friends who are all artists -- all concern themselves with the creation of images. All consider themselves serious artists. But they have very different attitudes…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Doctor Xero.

8/19/2004 Mark Woodhouse: RGFA GDS vs Big Model GNS: Inputs vs Outputs?
[b]Unraveling the intersection of RGFA GDS and Big Model GNS[/b] In observing the ongoing attempt to map Virtuality and GDS Dramatism into the Big Model, I’ve hit on (what I…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Mark Woodhouse, M. J. Young, contracycle, Caldis, ErrathofKosh, Marco, John Kim.

8/20/2004 Lee Short: Formal vs. Operation Definitions of G,N,S
Split off "Myths About Virtualism" -- responding to Mark Woodhouse I don't think we've actually got any real differences here in how we'd classify the example. But I'll clarify my…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Lee Short, Caldis, contracycle, Alan.

8/23/2004 ErrathofKosh: Motives and Methods, Conflict and Elements
First, I'd like to preface this post by noting that I hesitated before coming up with the resolve to present this. This is mixture of ideas that I have been…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: ErrathofKosh, Silmenume.

8/24/2004 Lee Short: What GNS is about [LONG]
[quote="Mark Woodhouse"] In observing the ongoing attempt to map Virtuality and GDS Dramatism into the Big Model, I?ve hit on (what I think is) a revelation. GDS and GNS aren?t…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Lee Short, contracycle, Marco, M. J. Young, Valamir, John Kim, ErrathofKosh, Gordon C. Landis, clehrich, Ron Edwards, Caldis, bcook1971.

8/24/2004 Valamir: Narrativism: Not a Creative Agenda...
I have been recently thinking more on the nature and interrelation of CAs and Techniques in the context of my recent essay. I've been thinking a great deal on the…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Valamir, timfire, ADGBoss, Artanis, Alan, Marco, Lee Short, Asrogoth, contracycle, Sean, Caldis, John Kim, ErrathofKosh, Gordon C. Landis, M. J. Young, Silmenume, clehrich, Ron Edwards.

8/26/2004 John Kim: More on 3D Model
OK, I want to talk more on Mike's 3D model, which I think is quite good. To review the basic formulation he made: CD - Player Challenge goal with…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: John Kim, Alan, clehrich, Marco, Tobias, Jack Aidley, ErrathofKosh, M. J. Young, Ron Edwards, Gordon C. Landis.

8/27/2004 Marco: Three Personal Rewards
Both I and Mike Holmes have touched on this--I think that a thread on it might prove interesting: Thesis: There are Three Personal Rewards of Gaming All players who game…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Marco, ErrathofKosh.

8/28/2004 Ron Edwards: Force
I'm gonna say it once more. 1. Force is when one person exercises controlling influence over another person's character's decisions, when those decisions are central to whatever CA is going…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ron Edwards, Ben Lehman, greyorm.

8/28/2004 Ron Edwards: This forum is being reviewed
I have decided that this forum needs a house-cleaning. My own recent post is angry, frustrated, and completely devoid of any expectation that it will be understood. That is a…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ron Edwards.

8/28/2004 Alan: What is Dramatism?
I recall Marco somewhere saying it was play with creating story structure as the primary goal. (However, I can't find the quote.) In Narrativism: Not a Creative Agenda... Marco said…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Alan, Marco, Caldis, John Kim.

8/28/2004 Silmenume: Fudging rumination -
This is mostly an open rumination but - As Fudging as it has commonly employed refers to Fortune mechanics - is there any milage to be had viewing fudging as…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Silmenume, Jaik, Sean, Alan, Ron Edwards.

8/28/2004 komradebob: Making Big Model kabobs.
I've been reading these other recent threads that suggest we might approach creative agendas as skewers going through the big model, and that many, may creative agendas beyond Gamist-Narrativist-Simulationist may…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: komradebob, Ben Lehman, clehrich, M. J. Young, Rob Carriere, Ron Edwards, Valamir.

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