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In GNS Model Discussion

8/31/2004 Ron Edwards: RULES FOR THIS FORUM: IN FORCE SEPT 1 2004
New rules for the GNS forum Hello, As of October 1, a new forum will begin at the Forge called "Introduction to the Big Model," or something like that. This…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ron Edwards, Alan, clehrich, GreatWolf, Mark D. Eddy, Emily Care, Clinton R. Nixon, Marco, timfire, Asrogoth, bcook1971, Christopher Kubasik, Artanis, Paganini.

8/31/2004 Marco: Techniques, Expectations, and Interactions
Ron wrote, P.S. Whoops, editing this in, Marco - your example sounds Narrativist to me. But it's kinda sketchy in your summary, so maybe I'm projecting into it to…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Marco, Ron Edwards.

8/31/2004 Silmenume: Point of clarification regarding Illusionism
Point of clarification regarding Illusionism (a style of play with Covert Force) - I had read in the last couple of days that when Illusionism was in Force that the…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Silmenume, Marco, Ron Edwards, M. J. Young, lumpley.

8/28/2004 komradebob: Making Big Model kabobs.
I've been reading these other recent threads that suggest we might approach creative agendas as skewers going through the big model, and that many, may creative agendas beyond Gamist-Narrativist-Simulationist may…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: komradebob, Ben Lehman, clehrich, M. J. Young, Rob Carriere, Ron Edwards, Valamir.

8/28/2004 Silmenume: Fudging rumination -
This is mostly an open rumination but - As Fudging as it has commonly employed refers to Fortune mechanics - is there any milage to be had viewing fudging as…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Silmenume, Jaik, Sean, Alan, Ron Edwards.

8/28/2004 Alan: What is Dramatism?
I recall Marco somewhere saying it was play with creating story structure as the primary goal. (However, I can't find the quote.) In Narrativism: Not a Creative Agenda... Marco said…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Alan, Marco, Caldis, John Kim.

8/28/2004 Ron Edwards: This forum is being reviewed
I have decided that this forum needs a house-cleaning. My own recent post is angry, frustrated, and completely devoid of any expectation that it will be understood. That is a…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ron Edwards.

8/28/2004 Ron Edwards: Force
I'm gonna say it once more. 1. Force is when one person exercises controlling influence over another person's character's decisions, when those decisions are central to whatever CA is going…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ron Edwards, Ben Lehman, greyorm.

8/27/2004 Marco: Three Personal Rewards
Both I and Mike Holmes have touched on this--I think that a thread on it might prove interesting: Thesis: There are Three Personal Rewards of Gaming All players who game…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Marco, ErrathofKosh.

8/26/2004 John Kim: More on 3D Model
OK, I want to talk more on Mike's 3D model, which I think is quite good. To review the basic formulation he made: CD - Player Challenge goal with…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: John Kim, Alan, clehrich, Marco, Tobias, Jack Aidley, ErrathofKosh, M. J. Young, Ron Edwards, Gordon C. Landis.

8/24/2004 Valamir: Narrativism: Not a Creative Agenda...
I have been recently thinking more on the nature and interrelation of CAs and Techniques in the context of my recent essay. I've been thinking a great deal on the…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Valamir, timfire, ADGBoss, Artanis, Alan, Marco, Lee Short, Asrogoth, contracycle, Sean, Caldis, John Kim, ErrathofKosh, Gordon C. Landis, M. J. Young, Silmenume, clehrich, Ron Edwards.

8/24/2004 Lee Short: What GNS is about [LONG]
[quote="Mark Woodhouse"] In observing the ongoing attempt to map Virtuality and GDS Dramatism into the Big Model, I?ve hit on (what I think is) a revelation. GDS and GNS aren?t…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Lee Short, contracycle, Marco, M. J. Young, Valamir, John Kim, ErrathofKosh, Gordon C. Landis, clehrich, Ron Edwards, Caldis, bcook1971.

8/23/2004 ErrathofKosh: Motives and Methods, Conflict and Elements
First, I'd like to preface this post by noting that I hesitated before coming up with the resolve to present this. This is mixture of ideas that I have been…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: ErrathofKosh, Silmenume.

8/20/2004 Lee Short: Formal vs. Operation Definitions of G,N,S
Split off "Myths About Virtualism" -- responding to Mark Woodhouse I don't think we've actually got any real differences here in how we'd classify the example. But I'll clarify my…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Lee Short, Caldis, contracycle, Alan.

8/19/2004 Mark Woodhouse: RGFA GDS vs Big Model GNS: Inputs vs Outputs?
[b]Unraveling the intersection of RGFA GDS and Big Model GNS[/b] In observing the ongoing attempt to map Virtuality and GDS Dramatism into the Big Model, I’ve hit on (what I…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Mark Woodhouse, M. J. Young, contracycle, Caldis, ErrathofKosh, Marco, John Kim.

8/19/2004 Doctor Xero: Simulationism analogy from paintings
[quote="in http://www.indie-rpgs.com/posting.php?mode=quote&p=131754 ejh"]I have three friends who are all artists -- all concern themselves with the creation of images. All consider themselves serious artists. But they have very different attitudes…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Doctor Xero.

8/17/2004 Lee Short: Some Myths About Virtualism
There are a number of confusions circulating about Virtualism. In this post, I will try to expose some of them. These confusions are a consequence of the following belief: …
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Lee Short, John Kim, Marco, Caldis, Mark Woodhouse, M. J. Young, contracycle, Valamir.

8/17/2004 PlotDevice: Applying Business Psychology to GNS?
I am just wondering if anyone has tried to apply the kind of psychological models that are spoken about in Learning and Development and Company Culture excercises to GNS theory?…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: PlotDevice, beingfrank.

8/16/2004 Troy_Costisick: Call of Cthullu and GNS
Heya, This post is mainly to see how much of GNS I am understanding, so please feel free to correct me on any of this. I really want to gage…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Troy_Costisick, Ron Edwards, b_bankhead, Marco.

8/16/2004 Andrew Morris: Defining GNS Through Examples
I've been following the New 3D Model thread, and found it very easy to grasp. This reminded me that I (along with others) have difficulty fully understanding GNS. I tend…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Andrew Morris, Ron Edwards, M. J. Young.

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Subsequent Topics
In GNS Model Discussion

9/2/2004 M. J. Young: Illusionist Techniques
Over in Jay's Point of Clarification Concerning Illusionism threadNot all illusionist techniques are necessarily "force" in that the invalidate player choices. Some are used precisely to enhance player choice.I…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: M. J. Young, Marco, clehrich, Blankshield, contracycle, bcook1971, Sean, Eric J., Silmenume, ErrathofKosh.

9/3/2004 M. J. Young: Referee/Player Sim/Nar Clash (from What GNS Is About)
As sometimes happens to me, I was asked a question in a thread, and I started to draft my answer, and then discovered that the thread had been closed since…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: M. J. Young, Marco, Ron Edwards, Gordon C. Landis, John Kim.

9/3/2004 Mark D. Eddy: CA Kabobs Revisited
An interesting thing about the Big Model is that it doesn’t actually require three Creative Agendas. In fact, given the Big Model’s diagram, there could be as many CA’s as…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Mark D. Eddy, Valamir, Gordon C. Landis, Ron Edwards, Ben Lehman.

9/4/2004 Caldis: What are we talking about when we say 'Creative Agenda'?
We seem to be having several discussions lately questioning this aspect of the Big Model so it seems time to tighten up the definition in hopes of gettting everyone on…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Caldis, Marco, John Kim, Lee Short, Erling Rognli, Gordon C. Landis, contracycle, M. J. Young, Ron Edwards.

9/9/2004 Roger: Bartle's "Players Who Suit MUDs"
[To everyone, but particularly Discussion Participant Ron.] Looking over the GNS theory, I was reminded of another essay about categorizing different styles of rpg players. After rummaging around a bit,…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Roger.

9/9/2004 Marco: Personal Agenda vs. Social Agenda
In another thread I discussed the case where a player is "playing Gamist" but not getting props from the group. The group is okay with him doing that--but they aren't…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Marco, Ron Edwards, contracycle, Walt Freitag, Mark Woodhouse.

9/14/2004 Marco: GNS Sim
Looking at the 3D-Model and The Big Model, I've come to the conclusion that I'm not sure what, definitionally, constitutes GNS Sim. Several things have been postulated but I'm not…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Marco, M. J. Young, Ben Lehman, eef, ffilz, contracycle, Caldis, Ron Edwards, Walt Freitag.

9/15/2004 ErrathofKosh: What am I doing?
First off, I'm not sure whether this question should be asked in this forum or over in Actual Play, but as it concerns my understanding of GNS, I put it…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: ErrathofKosh, ffilz, eef, Ron Edwards, Sean.

9/15/2004 Marco: Emotional Involvement
I broke this out from the GNS Sim thread since it's something I wanted to look at separately. c) Is the division between Sim and Nar (absent railroading…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Marco, M. J. Young, eef, Walt Freitag, Ron Edwards, contracycle.

9/15/2004 Erling Rognli: Sorting out front-loading and most likely choice
[quote="Marco, in GNS Sim thread"]However: That technique, the technique of choosing the most-likely choice, can apply just as easily to Narrativist or Gamist play and will be applied successfully with…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Erling Rognli, Marco, ErrathofKosh.

9/20/2004 Dave Panchyk: GNS summation: please to shred
Hey all, I regularly contribute to a play-by-mail gaming magazine, and wanted to bring the basic ideas of GNS/The Big Picture to the players and designers who read it. I…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Dave Panchyk, Jaik, Ron Edwards, lumpley, timfire, Eric J..

9/25/2004 clehrich: Sim-Diceless thread search
Hi gang, I'm working on something at the moment, which you won't be surprised to hear is wildly theoretical and probably completely bizarre, and I won't talk your eyes off…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: clehrich, Trevis Martin, Jonathan Walton, timfire, neelk, Sean, Eero Tuovinen, Ron Edwards, Vaxalon, John Kim, C. Edwards, M. J. Young, contracycle, Marco, Arref.

9/28/2004 M. J. Young: Splitting Simulationism?
For a while lately I've been bothered by what I perceive as a widening rift in the definition of simulationism. In my mind, I had come to identify simulationist play…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: M. J. Young, Ben Lehman, C. Edwards, Mark D. Eddy, Marco, Jinx, Ron Edwards, Sean, timfire, Silmenume, clehrich.

9/29/2004 bcook1971: Groping Forward
After reading Splitting Simulationism and Subtyping Sim, I experienced a return to understanding regarding layering of the Big Model. (i.e. Actual play reflects settings on the panel of agenda; often,…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: bcook1971, Ron Edwards.

9/29/2004 Wormwood: Big Model as a Scientific Theory
Note: this is not a critique of accuracy. Rather it is an attempt to point out places where the structure and formalisms of the Big Model Theory cause difficulty in…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Wormwood, clehrich, Jere, Ron Edwards, Sean, ErrathofKosh, timfire.

10/4/2004 Marco: transparent vs. mechanical
In the post on diceless Sim, Ron says: 1. Marco, quick clarifier: I do not suggest that either The Window or Theatrix is any sort of Sim exemplar in…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Marco, Ron Edwards, clehrich, Valamir.

10/13/2004 John Kim: Mechanics as Symbol Sets (was Sim-Diceless thread search)
OK, so I'd like to start a thread about mechanics as symbol sets, this continued from my discussion with contracycle toward the end of Sim-Diceless thread search. Important reading…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: John Kim, clehrich, contracycle, Sean, Ron Edwards, Walt Freitag.

10/16/2004 Silmenume: Musings on mechanics and The Dream
I wasn't quite sure where this fit in the whole mechanics threads scheme of things, so rather than botch someone else's efforts - I put this here. If Drama as…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Silmenume, Paganini, clehrich, C. Edwards, Ron Edwards, Walt Freitag.

10/17/2004 Roger: The Basis for Criticism
(split from Musings on mechanics and The Dream) Again and again, people object that what I'm describing can't be what they do because the essay text doesn't feel like…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Roger, clehrich, John Kim, contracycle, Ron Edwards, Marco, jdagna.

10/18/2004 Sean: Validation of Input in Sim
Marco asked about this in another thread. Marco, what did you think of Chris Kubasik's post here: http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=12964&start=42 that seemed to me to be one fine example, if not of…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Sean, Marco, John Kim, contracycle, Ron Edwards.

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