Previous Topics
In GNS Model Discussion

5/26/2001 Valamir: Simulation and Subjectivity
Ok. This is a very Sorcerer specific message and so in that sense might more appropriately belong on the Sorcerer forum. But my intent here is not so much to…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Valamir, Supplanter, greyorm, Clinton R. Nixon, Gordon C. Landis, Mike Holmes, Jared A. Sorensen, GreatWolf, Paul Czege, james_west, Logan, Mytholder, joshua neff, Zak Arntson.

5/25/2001 Daredevil: Thoughts
Heya, What follows is just some thoughts I feel like voicing. They're not anything I feel too strongly about, but merely things that have occurred to me while pondering the…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Daredevil, Ron Edwards, Zak Arntson.

5/24/2001 Zak Arntson: Simulate vs. Explore
Here is my take on Simulation vs. Exploration. Simulation holds the weight that "Sim" does as a prefix to video games. SimAnt, for example, handles anthills _NOT_ realistically, but with…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Zak Arntson, Jared A. Sorensen, Valamir, Ron Edwards, Mike Holmes, greyorm.

5/24/2001 GreatWolf: Posts in Critical Hit
Scarlet Jester has posted two threads on Gamist and Explorative play in the Critical Hit forum on Gaming Outpost. Personally I found them helpful and thought-provoking, and I was curious…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: GreatWolf, Jared A. Sorensen, Valamir.

5/23/2001 Ian O'Rourke: Narrativists: Competitive Wusses?
[quote] On 2001-05-23 15:06, Blake Hutchins wrote: Ron's speculations regarding Simulationism is like saying Narrativists are afraid of competing or intimidated by immersive gaming. [/quote] I'm making a generalisation here…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ian O'Rourke, Ron Edwards, Blake Hutchins, joshua neff, GreatWolf, Gordon C. Landis, Jared A. Sorensen, james_west, Mike Holmes, Dav, Valamir, Poxface, Doc Midnight.

5/23/2001 Logan: GM Bias
This is the beginning of a discussion about GM bias. So far, G/N/S has addressed the behaviors of designers and players. But GMs also have preferences, and I think these…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Logan, Ian O'Rourke, Ron Edwards, Mike Holmes, Mytholder, Jared A. Sorensen, greyorm.

5/23/2001 Ian O'Rourke: GNS and Gaming in the Modern World
I'm writing an article at the moment for fandomlife.net (or my rpg.net column I've not decided yet) which basically proposes a strategy on how to get regular gaming sessions going…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ian O'Rourke, Ron Edwards, Mytholder, Gordon C. Landis, james_west.

5/21/2001 Clinton R. Nixon: Rune - the analysis
I managed to pick up Atlas Games' Rune this weekend and am about half-way through it. So far, I think it's a masterpiece, but I was biased going in. It's…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Clinton R. Nixon, Jared A. Sorensen, hardcoremoose, Mike Holmes, Ian O'Rourke, Valamir.

5/20/2001 joshua neff: three-headed dog
over on rpg.net, someone posted a question, asking which game he should buy, "rune", "dying earth", or "pendragon"... & it just struck me: is this a great example of "gamist",…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: joshua neff, james_west, Paul Czege, Ron Edwards, Ian O'Rourke.

5/18/2001 Dav: Gygax is still alive?
The man should be caned. RPGNet: Beginning around the early 1990s, the roleplaying world experienced a "movement," the nature and definition of which is still up for furious debate, characterized…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Dav, Ron Edwards, Clinton R. Nixon, joshua neff, Logan, Jared A. Sorensen, Zak Arntson, Gordon C. Landis, james_west, Mytholder, Paul Czege.

5/16/2001 james_west: strong vs weak narrativism
(I apologize in advance for any possible mangling of others' words or meanings.) I've seen a lot of apparently quite different definitions of narrativism in this forum. Upon reflection, however,…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: james_west, joshua neff, Ron Edwards, Blake Hutchins.

5/13/2001 greyorm: Some more definition insanity
In a recent message here, Ron, it seemed you were saying that the narrative game has far-reaching plots set-up in advance ala Tolkien and the simulationist game is more like…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: greyorm, Ron Edwards, james_west.

5/12/2001 Ian O'Rourke: Player Behaviour Dangers
I tend to agree with Ron (and whoever else), as I think GNS can be used to classify player behaviour, most people fall into one category in the main. I…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ian O'Rourke, Logan, Ron Edwards, Zak Arntson, hardcoremoose, joshua neff, james_west, Gordon C. Landis.

5/11/2001 james_west: friendlier G/N/S definitions
I've been thinking about a less confrontational set of G/N/S definitions: see what you think. Put this way, I think most people would call themselves Gamist ... note that by…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: james_west, Logan, Jared A. Sorensen, Gordon C. Landis, Zak Arntson, Ron Edwards, greyorm, joshua neff, Paul Czege, GreatWolf, Mike Holmes.

5/10/2001 Gordon C. Landis: "Story" thoughts
Great stuff here, everyone. I'm never sure I actually understand G/N/S, nor if it is even really a "good" analysis of RPGs in general, but it (and the discussions on…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Gordon C. Landis, james_west, Ron Edwards, joshua neff.

5/10/2001 Clinton R. Nixon: Psychological simulationism
In the Feng Shui thread, it was asked if any thought had been given to psychological simulationism in RPGs. My three examples to rip apart would be: The White Wolf…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Clinton R. Nixon, Ron Edwards, Jared A. Sorensen.

5/10/2001 james_west: theoretical game spaces (17k in images)
I'd not heard of the narrativist/gamist/simulationist axes before looking over this website a few days ago. However, I've looked over not only the material here but related material on other…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: james_west, Ron Edwards.

5/9/2001 Logan: Incorrect Assumptions
Some of our assumptions about the G/S/D and also G/N/S may be incorrect. For instance, Ron and I have thought that John Kim's 3-fold debate didn't go anywhere. Not true.…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Logan, james_west, Ron Edwards, greyorm.

5/9/2001 Ron Edwards: A proposed policy for all of us
Hey, I'm thinking about the inevitable day when someone shows up at the Forge and launches into an anti-G/N/S rant. I'm not talking about an honest inquiry, even if it's…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ron Edwards, Clinton R. Nixon, greyorm, james_west.

5/9/2001 Clinton R. Nixon: System doesn't matter, as narrated by E. Gary Gygax
(from a recent interview at http://www.cdmag.com/Home/home.html?article=/articles/032/127/010507-f2.html) Interviewer: There are quite a few "freeware" role-playing games on the Internet these days... EGG: Right. And they're worth every penny you pay…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Clinton R. Nixon, Dav, Ron Edwards, Mytholder, Jason L Blair, greyorm.

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Subsequent Topics
In GNS Model Discussion

5/31/2001 james_west: FAQ
This forum clearly needs a FAQ. I suggest it contains: (1) A set of definitions (or paradigms, or whatever) of G/N/S (2) An explanation of what it is supposed to…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: james_west, Logan, Ron Edwards, greyorm, Blake Hutchins, Valamir, Mike Holmes.

5/31/2001 Ron Edwards: State of the art
Hello everyone. These last few days on the Forge have been a big frustration for me. 1) Flaming, frankly. What's up with that (as my students would say)? That is…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ron Edwards.

5/31/2001 Dav: Concerning stances
Okay, after much debate and great discussion... well, some other guy beat everyone to the punch for setting out to the unwashed masses. http://ptgptb.humbug.org.au/0017/roles.html A good article, and worth reading.…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Dav.

6/1/2001 Gordon C. Landis: An understanding of GNS
OK, I want to run through what I've learned/decided as a result of some of the semi-recent discussion here and on GO, especially as regards Story and GNS, and add…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Gordon C. Landis, Supplanter, greyorm, Ron Edwards, Clinton R. Nixon, Logan.

6/5/2001 jburneko: Narativism: I still don't get it.
This is very frustrating for me. I'm not talking about theory here. I'm not asking what Narativism *IS* or anything like that. I'm talking about practical application. I'm talking about…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: jburneko, Dav, Ian O'Rourke, Ron Edwards, Christopher Kubasik, J B Bell, Mike Holmes.

6/7/2001 Gordon C. Landis: G or N or S - caution, do not mix!
(Appologies if this turns out to be something we should just wait for the FAQ on . . .) Over in game design, Ron corrected a possible incorrect understanding of…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Gordon C. Landis, jburneko, Dav, Mike Holmes, Logan, Ron Edwards, Justin Bacon, Mytholder.

6/7/2001 greyorm: Using the Threefold in Design
Well, the title more or less says it all. Basically, how do YOU use the Threefold in design? How does it help you design your game? How do you respond…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: greyorm, Ron Edwards, Jared A. Sorensen, GreatWolf, Mytholder, Mike Holmes, Zak Arntson.

6/10/2001 Torrent: 6 W's in Game Write up
I offer the following as an observation. Feel free to debate and tear it apart if need be. It came to me in the blank time driving back and forth…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Torrent.

6/10/2001 Supplanter: Where Did Dramatism Go?
Awhile ago Ron made clear to me that "Narrativism is not Dramatism" - that is to say, it is distinct from the type of game Kim and Berkman called Dramatism…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Supplanter, Mytholder, jburneko, greyorm, Valamir, Logan, Ron Edwards.

6/14/2001 Clinton R. Nixon: The FAQ is up
There'll be links on the front page and in the forum soon, but until then: http://www.indie-rpgs.com/faq/ Enjoy. And thank Logan and Ron--they've worked hard on this one.
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Clinton R. Nixon, Mytholder, Epoch, Blake Hutchins, Logan, Valamir, james_west, greyorm, Ron Edwards, Jared A. Sorensen, Gordon C. Landis, joshua neff, Levekius, GreatWolf, Mike Holmes, Supplanter.

6/17/2001 Mytholder: More FAQ comments (long and bloody)
Ok...It's 2.18am as I begin this, I got four hours sleep last night and have spent half the day playing an l5r tournament and the rest of the time at…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Mytholder, Supplanter, Logan, Valamir, greyorm.

6/17/2001 Supplanter: Toward a Sense, If Not a Theory, of Simulationism
Taking off from some p-mail I got this morning... The question is how to characterize the goals of simulationist play and not just its taboos. Simulation is "Let's Pretend" in…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Supplanter, Mytholder, greyorm, Epoch, james_west, Justin Bacon, JohnMorrow, Knight.

6/18/2001 Logan: Clarifying GNS for the re-write
I'm rather concerned that some primary aspects of the presentation have been misunderstood by many who have read it. Since I will be rewriting the doc on Jun 21, I…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Logan, Mytholder, jburneko, greyorm, james_west, Epoch, Gordon C. Landis, Supplanter, Paul Czege, Ron Edwards, Blake Hutchins, Mike Holmes, JohnMorrow, Pyske, Clinton R. Nixon, Damocles, Forum Admin.

6/18/2001 Epoch: Style Mixing
Sorry, but a bit of opening preamble to get you to where I am, here. I'm a proponent of non-pure-style gaming -- I think that the best gaming experiences come…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Epoch, jburneko, Gordon C. Landis, greyorm, Valamir, Ron Edwards.

6/23/2001 Pyske: GNS analysis of RPG stigmas
This thread is inspired by the comments about the placement of "railroading" in the FAQ. In general, it is usually agreed that in a group activity, valuing one's own enjoyment…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Pyske, Knight, Mytholder, greyorm.

6/25/2001 Jared A. Sorensen: Carpentry, film criticism and game design
Hi! It's nice to see that the FAQ is up and people are talking...but well, there seems to be three types of people when it comes to this model. There…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Jared A. Sorensen, Knight, greyorm, GreatWolf.

6/28/2001 Valamir: a Radical Notion
I know I'm not the first to come up with this idea, but let me be the first to start a thread on it. GNS: Chuck it. Chuck the whole…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Valamir, Gordon C. Landis, Paul Czege, Supplanter, Logan, Mytholder, Le Joueur, greyorm, JohnMorrow.

7/2/2001 Valamir: Simulation: the problem is with the word
Well, I just found a few really meaty and useful threads over in Actual Play. I still wonder how many more meaty threads we'd have if everyone wasn't so obsessed…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Valamir, Gordon C. Landis, JohnMorrow, Logan, Paul Czege, Dav, Mytholder, Supplanter.

7/3/2001 Logan: At the Center of the Triangle
In the Clarifying GNS thread, Pyske (aka Eric) made some good comments about the faq. One particular point got lost in the shuffle. I'll quote him here. System does…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Logan, Ron Edwards, jburneko, Le Joueur, Mytholder, Damocles.

7/4/2001 Gordon C. Landis: Simulation: another word
OK, I haven't sold myself on this, but if we must have another word for Simulation (I'm also not sold either way on that), I offer . . . Situation.…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Gordon C. Landis, Dav.

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