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In GNS Model Discussion

7/9/2002 Steve Dustin: Why simulationism?
I've been off and on these boards for a while, generally watching from a distance. I've been thinking about my current RPG experiences, and in that context think I might…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Steve Dustin, Ron Edwards, Clinton R. Nixon, Mike Holmes, Walt Freitag, Le Joueur, contracycle, Paganini, Matt Snyder, amiel.

6/23/2002 Eric J.: Am I just a freak? {warning selfish thread}
I'm sorry for starting such a selfish thread but I figure that it might create a good discussion and I probably carry enough prestigue around here to have people tolerate…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Eric J., Victor Gijsbers, Valamir, Ron Edwards, Jack Spencer Jr, Laurel, Clinton R. Nixon, Scratchware, Fabrice G..

6/21/2002 Victor Gijsbers: Is Narrativism rightly restricted to Premise?
The concensus on the Forge seems to be that a Narrativist game (insert all possible disclaimers about using GNS when talking about games instead of decisions) must focus on a…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Victor Gijsbers, Ron Edwards, Mark D. Eddy, Laurel, Thededine.

6/18/2002 Brian Leybourne: OK, can someone explain to me...
(or point me to the explanation because I don't seem to be able to find it). Gamist, Narritivist, Simulationist. Possibly others although these are the three that get bandied about,…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Brian Leybourne, Clinton R. Nixon, Wolfen, Gordon C. Landis, Paul Czege, Christopher Kubasik, deidzoeb.

6/16/2002 Buddha Nature: Narrativist mechanics
Hey all, I am looking for possible "patches" or "house rules" to make a less than narrativist game (D&D 3E for example) more so. For example one thing I had…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Buddha Nature, Bankuei, Victor Gijsbers, Ron Edwards, damion, deidzoeb.

6/15/2002 Mark D. Eddy: GNS, Transaction, and Game Design
Well, the follow-up point wasn't really addressed, mostly because we went from a generalization to specifics without passing Go and without collecting $200. However, the discussion has led me to…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Mark D. Eddy, Ron Edwards, Le Joueur, Walt Freitag, Thededine.

6/14/2002 Mark D. Eddy: GNS and transaction theory
It seems to be a premise of the GNS theory that each discrete decision is based on one and only one of the catagories, and that catagory can be absolutely…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Mark D. Eddy, Ron Edwards, Clinton R. Nixon, Mike Holmes, Christoffer Lernö.

6/13/2002 Mark D. Eddy: Non-literary Narrativism?
Note that this is my first post, so please don't bite if this has come up before. If I'm following the logic correctly, Narrativism is based on Premise, whether or…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Mark D. Eddy, jburneko, Paganini, Mike Holmes, Seth L. Blumberg, Ron Edwards.

6/12/2002 quozl: Gamer Preferences Quiz
I just came across this at: http://members.dandy.net/~mjyoung/gametype.html and first of all, I'm wondering do people here think it gives valid answers and secondly, if so, would it be helpful to…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: quozl, Ron Edwards, Mike Holmes, Seth L. Blumberg, Laurel, Evan Waters, Eric J., Fabrice G., contracycle, M. J. Young, soundwave.

6/12/2002 Paganini: The Words Of Gratuitous Capitalization
Well, since no one else seems to be doing it, I've put together the foundation of a Forgian dictionary. This is by no means complete. Please, please, PLEASE, post to…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Paganini, joshua neff, Le Joueur, Mark D. Eddy, Victor Gijsbers, Seth L. Blumberg, rafael.

6/7/2002 deidzoeb: Who's responsible for Premise - game designer, GM or player?
[This is really a continuation of some ideas from the Indie Game Design thread "No Premise: Dust Devils, The World The Flesh and the Devil." at http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1526 ] Is it…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: deidzoeb, J B Bell, Ron Edwards, Paul Czege, Thededine, amiel.

6/3/2002 Eric J.: Potential hypocrite is now GNS elitism bustin
The title was misleading, but I'm not shure what to make of this. I have viewed others trying to look on gamism and simulationism as detrimental and even one person…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Eric J., Tim Denee, Valamir, Ron Edwards, Bankuei, Blake Hutchins.

5/29/2002 Gordon C. Landis: Film vs. Novel as N-model
Over in RPG Theory, I read: (This, by the way, works great for the introverted medium of the novel -- you create it alone, you consume it alone, and…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Gordon C. Landis, Christopher Kubasik, Ron Edwards.

5/29/2002 Blake Hutchins: Split from the split-split
Heh. Nothing to do with the old posts. However, Evan brought up a point regarding computer games that I think warrants a comment. He mentioned that MMORPG's like Everquest and…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Blake Hutchins, Walt Freitag, Evan Waters, Valamir, Seth L. Blumberg, xiombarg.

5/29/2002 xiombarg: Third split, and last
[quote="Ron Edwards"]The real issue is whether this is a valid generalization. That's a very important concept: a VALID GENERALIZATION. Such a thing accounts for most of the variation we see…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: xiombarg, Ron Edwards, Clinton R. Nixon, AndyGuest.

5/29/2002 contracycle: Split (again) from old discussion
[quote] No, we think that Simulationism is a form of retreat, denial, and defense against the responsibilities of either Gamism or Narrativism. [/quote] I disagree in the most violent possible…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: contracycle, Ron Edwards.

5/29/2002 Evan Waters: Split from "long and brutal"
I might be misreading the model entirely when I say this, but one game that seems "Simulationist" to me that hasn't been described as such (in this thread at least)…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Evan Waters, AndyGuest, Clinton R. Nixon, Ron Edwards, xiombarg.

5/28/2002 Christopher Kubasik: Exploration of "Genre"
Hi Everybody, I normally don't jump into the theory threads -- cause a) my academic lingo just doesn't exist and b) I usually have nothing more interesting to add than…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Christopher Kubasik, Le Joueur, Gordon C. Landis, joshua neff, contracycle.

5/27/2002 Le Joueur: Okay, Dramatism Again...
You've brought up three points (I think) that I want to address separately, no offense intended. With respect, you have fallen into the same trap that others have fallen…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Le Joueur, Ron Edwards.

5/26/2002 Walt Freitag: One order of Narrativism, hold the Premise please
Thursday evening I read through the RPGNet GNS thread again. Then I followed the link back to the March thread and read that. Then I spent about twelve straight hours…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Walt Freitag, Mike Holmes, Ron Edwards, Le Joueur, Seth L. Blumberg, contracycle, Ian Cooper, Valamir.

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Subsequent Topics
In GNS Model Discussion

7/23/2002 Jake Norwood: GNS Decisions, I think I'm starting to get it enough to talk
The way I see it, GNS is primarily about decisions, and only by extension about games, players, or whatever. So here's a definition in a nutshell: Gamist decision: What will…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Jake Norwood, Valamir, Paganini, Mike Holmes, Christopher Kubasik, Ron Edwards, Blake Hutchins.

7/23/2002 damion: Which end do I point?
I've been around the forge for a short period of time, read ron's essays, searched & read some of the old threads and I've come up with following question. I…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: damion, Victor Gijsbers, jburneko, Zak Arntson, Clinton R. Nixon, Skippy.

8/2/2002 Marco: A note on GNS and scale ...
From the "Why Sim" Thread. As to the original question: I like different gaming styles (make different decisions in my gaming) at different times for a variety of reasons. …
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Marco, Andrew Martin, Ron Edwards, Daredevil, Thededine, Jeremy Cole, Mike Holmes, jdagna, contracycle, Walt Freitag.

8/18/2002 Eric J.: Simulationismn and overpreperation
Just a quick reminder to thoes who forgot or don't relise I exist. I'm working really hard and soon I should return as a regular on the forge. This should…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Eric J., Valamir, Andrew Martin, Ron Edwards, damion, hyphz, Balbinus, jdagna.

8/23/2002 soundwave: And so the difference is...
Okay, like most of the newbies I'm sure you guys have to deal with quite regularly, I'm in something of a larval stage regarding my understanding of the concepts of…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: soundwave, Valamir, Paganini, Ron Edwards, M. J. Young.

8/25/2002 kaworuiskool: Question about GNS in computer games
Long time lurker, first time poster.... The other day I was introducing gns to my best buddy, who learns better by example than by reading essays. I decided to use…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: kaworuiskool, Ron Edwards, Blake Hutchins, Walt Freitag, Mike Holmes, contracycle, Valamir, M. J. Young.

9/5/2002 Jeremy Cole: is it the slice of the pie, or the size of the piece
It seems to me that some systems better meet gamism, simulationism and narratavism goals than other systems. While in game design you must have a focus, and must to some…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Jeremy Cole, Mike Holmes, Valamir, Ron Edwards, damion, Walt Freitag, Le Joueur, M. J. Young.

9/5/2002 Paka: Relinquishing Control in Dust Devils
I have got to admit that the mechanic in Dust Devils in which the player takes over narrative control of a scene until conflict is resolved troubles me. The game…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Paka, Mike Holmes, Valamir, jburneko, Matt Snyder.

9/5/2002 jdagna: Incoherency and Sales
The GNS article pretty well avoids addressing how game sales relate to their GNS focus (or lack thereof). It seems to me that many of the most successful products have…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: jdagna, Mike Holmes, Ron Edwards, Valamir, Le Joueur, damion, contracycle, M. J. Young, Christopher Kubasik, Jeremy Cole.

9/9/2002 Lee Short: Question: Exploration of System
What precisely is meant by "Exploration of System?" I see at least two possibilities: (1) given that reality is defined by the game system, what does this imply about how…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Lee Short, jburneko, Ron Edwards, Garbanzo.

9/10/2002 deadpanbob: Can a game designer work for all three (G/N/S)?
I'm new to this forum. New to game design. Been playing RPG's for longer than I'd care to admit - well, okay, since Chainmail. First off, Ron's GNS essay was…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: deadpanbob, Ron Edwards, Valamir, Mike Holmes, Le Joueur, Walt Freitag, M. J. Young, Clinton R. Nixon, Jeremy Cole.

9/10/2002 deadpanbob: Competitive, Cooperative and Collaborative fit with G/N/S...
A person who I used to game with came up with the following framework that maybe fits within G/N/S... There are three types of games - in terms of actual…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: deadpanbob, Valamir, Ron Edwards.

9/10/2002 Walt Freitag: Same game, different players, different rules?
On this thread, Ron wrote: I suggest that when a GNS-diverse group does work well together, that there may well be compensating mechanisms going on, whether at the whole-social-group level,…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Walt Freitag, Mike Holmes, Ron Edwards, deadpanbob, Jeremy Cole, lumpley, damion, Jeffrey Miller, Emily Care, Le Joueur.

9/11/2002 Matt Wilson: sanity check on G vs. S
Some days I feel slow... check my math here, someone? Shadowrun supports gamist play because it's mostly about "missions," where the players go nuts with tactics of all sorts and…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Matt Wilson, Ron Edwards, KAR 120 C, Wart.

9/12/2002 giblin: Ying in the Yang?
I have been reading the GNS types and was wondering about the following question that hit me; If Narativist gamming gave you bonuses to do something based on the flashy…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: giblin, Tim C Koppang, Ron Edwards, greyorm, Alan, jdagna, deadpanbob, Mike Holmes, Valamir, John Wick.

9/20/2002 deadpanbob: Objective G/N/S and System Mechanic evaluation...
All, Ace posted an interesting question in this thread. Marco made an interesting reply within that thread: To put it another way: the theory that you might have a…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: deadpanbob, Andrew Martin, ThreeGee, damion, Marco, contracycle.

9/23/2002 Valamir: GNS, Intent and Motivations
From the Ying in the Yang? thread. Hi there, No one seems to be understanding my point: that "intent" as you see it is perfectly all right for you…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Valamir, Ron Edwards, deadpanbob, jdagna, Mike Holmes, Marco, M. J. Young, contracycle, damion, Seth L. Blumberg, C. Edwards, Wart.

9/25/2002 deadpanbob: GNS Behavior Mapping (Covering old ground, I'm Sure)
In the thread about GNS Intent and Motive we have a discussion going on between essentially 3 camps: I actually see three sides to this debate. The…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: deadpanbob, Mike Holmes, Seth L. Blumberg, Paul Czege, MK Snyder.

9/27/2002 Jake Norwood: Setting the Mood
In our discussion of FVLMINATA in actual play wyrdling identified the use of Tali dice and Latin names for game elements as sample reasons that led him to believe that…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Jake Norwood, deadpanbob, Ron Edwards, wyrdlyng, contracycle.

10/4/2002 JMendes: A new look at GNS and a new axis of analysis
Hello, all, :) A (long) time ago, I came across a wee bit of text that divided role-play gamers into three groups (sound familiar?). These groups were: the adventurers; the…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: JMendes, greyorm, Wart, Ron Edwards, jdagna, Mike Holmes, Le Joueur.

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