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In GNS Model Discussion

2/3/2003 clehrich: Sim-Morality (essay thread, long)
There is a thread, now probably dead, in the Site Discussion forum, discussing Ron's new article on Simulationism, but I thought this might be a useful place to start grappling…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: clehrich, M. J. Young, Ron Edwards, Mike Holmes, contracycle.

2/3/2003 John Kim: The Players as Bass
I was intrigued by Ron Edward's essay comparing a Narrativist GM to a bass player. Mostly, it brought home to me that Narrativist as he conceives of it is narrowly…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: John Kim, Valamir, clehrich, Le Joueur, Jack Spencer Jr, Ron Edwards.

1/31/2003 Matt Wilson: Thoughts for the Gamism essay
I don't know how far along the essay is, but I've been thinking about the categories in general and how they're so big as to be impractical for me in…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Matt Wilson, jburneko, Paul Czege, JMendes, Cadriel, Mike Holmes.

1/31/2003 Ron Edwards: Playing Bass (Narrativism essay preview)
Hi there, So you'll see the Simulationism essay on Monday, and I'm crankin' on the Gamism one. These are mondo-big, so we're talking weeks to wait. I'm also scribbling on…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ron Edwards, M. J. Young, Johannes, Psycho42, Alan, Jeffrey Miller, Clinton R. Nixon, GreatWolf, Michael S. Miller, clehrich, Le Joueur, arxhon.

1/29/2003 Valamir: GNS from Shadows in the Fog
[quote="clehrich"]Valamir, I know what you're saying; really I do. If this turns into a debate, we should take it to the GNS forum, but here's what I mean:[/quote] And so…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Valamir, Ron Edwards, clehrich, cruciel, M. J. Young, Johannes, joshua neff.

1/25/2003 clehrich: Confused about Premise and Narrativism
I'm sorry to rake up old coals here, but I'm lost. I have read Ron's article, and several threads about the issue of Premise vis-a-vis Narrativism, and the more I…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: clehrich, cruciel, Ron Edwards, ThreeGee, Jack Spencer Jr.

1/24/2003 Johannes: Newbie question on narrativism and plot
In the GNS-essay it says that narrativism is expressed by the creation, via role-playing, of a story with a recognizable theme. It also says that it is defined by the…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Johannes, jburneko, Ron Edwards, Cadriel, Jack Spencer Jr, Le Joueur, Walt Freitag, M. J. Young, Mike Holmes, John Kim.

1/24/2003 jrients: GNS and wargaming
Anyone here ever try to apply GNS to the counter and hexmap crowd? I only ask because it occurred to me that differing GNS priorities would explain why I have…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: jrients, contracycle, Gordon C. Landis, Jack Spencer Jr, Ron Edwards, Thierry Michel, Mike Holmes, ThreeGee, A.Neill.

1/23/2003 Johannes: DFK: rock, paper and scissors?
In the Egri & the "Lumpley Principle" -thread it was argued that guessing games are karma and not fortune because the values are fixed. I understand this so that the…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Johannes, Jared A. Sorensen, Ron Edwards, Matt, Mike Holmes, Jack Spencer Jr, Shreyas Sampat, M. J. Young, Walt Freitag, talysman, Valamir.

1/19/2003 ThreeGee: light bulb
Hey all, I first read Ron's GNS essay a couple years ago, and I have been generally able to guess which of the three catagories applies to a given situation,…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: ThreeGee, Ron Edwards, Jack Spencer Jr.

1/5/2003 lumpley: Backstory vs. Strong Character Creation
Spawned right outta Egri & Me. Hi! What separates the backstory from the story is a turning point in the character. Em's character Soraya was abused by her master Severin.…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: lumpley, Paganini, Paul Czege, Le Joueur, Emily Care, Jack Spencer Jr, bluegargantua, Christopher Kubasik, contracycle.

1/4/2003 Henry Fitch: Nobilis - really diceless?
Okay, this is a DFK question instead of a GNS one. Is that okay? Hope so. Anyway, I'm thinking that Nobilis isn't a fully diceless (i.e. fortuneless) system. When a…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Henry Fitch, DaR, Andrew Martin, Ron Edwards.

12/30/2002 lumpley: Egri & the "Lumpley Principle"
I just finished the Art of Dramatic Writing and Egri says: you get a story when you take a strong, driven, dynamic character at a turning point, add balanced opposition,…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: lumpley, Drew Stevens, Jack Spencer Jr, J B Bell, Ron Edwards, Emily Care, Paganini, bluegargantua, Steve Dustin, Alan, Christopher Kubasik, M. J. Young.

12/21/2002 M. J. Young: Blended Mechanics?
[quote="This is part of what Ron Edwards"]I disagree with you. As I have more-or-less interpreted the terms from Everway, they go like this: 1) Fortune = use of a randomizing…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: M. J. Young, Valamir, Jack Spencer Jr, Ron Edwards, GreatWolf, Seth L. Blumberg, Andrew Martin, Le Joueur, bluegargantua.

12/18/2002 Jeffrey Miller: Player or Character driven - is there a difference?
Caution - slight GNS content follows, but feel free to expand. In a seperate thread, Alan Barclay posted: Player-driven. ( I believe there's no difference, but I don't want to…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Jeffrey Miller, Andrew Martin, Ron Edwards, cruciel, Alan, M. J. Young, Jack Spencer Jr, Gordon C. Landis, Clinton R. Nixon, Matt Wilson.

12/18/2002 bluegargantua: The Box -- an idea for clarifying terminology
Hi, So reading through the GNS articles and a number of threads here in this forum, I've come to the following conclusion: The terminology was rather vague to begin with.…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: bluegargantua, Emily Care, quozl, Bankuei, Seth L. Blumberg, talysman, M. J. Young, Ron Edwards.

12/8/2002 James V. West: NOMA and GNS
This may be the first time I've posted in the GNS forum. I generally don't get involved in theory discussions, but this question kept bugging me all week (and if…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: James V. West, Jack Spencer Jr, Ron Edwards, talysman.

11/29/2002 lumpley: Pervy Sim, Points of Contact, Accessibility: an example game
Hey. I used to play in this game with Sarah Kahn and them, and holy cow were they pervs. The philosophy: 1. No game mechanics can be as good a…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: lumpley, Ron Edwards, Mike Holmes.

11/24/2002 hyphz: TROS, Narrativism and Illusionism
To be honest I had absolutely no idea where to post this, but since I'm mentioning '-isms' I suppose I'll try here first. Here's my question. I'm led to understand…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: hyphz, Ron Edwards, Mike Holmes, Jake Norwood.

11/24/2002 MK Snyder: Cannot stand cutesipoo terms like "vanilla" and &q
Just for the record. Applying them to *combat systems* is a pretty weird thing to do. The whole "mixing sex with violence" vocabulary does not sit well with me, not…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: MK Snyder, Ron Edwards, Mike Holmes, J B Bell, Manu, Le Joueur, Emily Care, M. J. Young, Ian Charvill, xiombarg.

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Subsequent Topics
In GNS Model Discussion

2/3/2003 xiombarg: Simulationism vs. Narrativism: Concrete Example
Okay, after reading Ron's recent essay, I'm starting to wonder if I'm somewhat "behind the curve" here in terms of my understanding of the GNS model. Could someone tell me…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: xiombarg, Ron Edwards, Mike Holmes, Valamir, Balbinus.

2/3/2003 Ron Edwards: Drumming [yes, more bass stuff]
Hi there, I wanted to follow up on the The bass metaphor a little and talk about players during that sort of play. It so happens Chris scooped me a…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ron Edwards, Matt Wilson, contracycle, Le Joueur, Gordon C. Landis, Alan, Mario, Mike Holmes, Emily Care, ADGBoss.

2/4/2003 xiombarg: GNS Crisis of Faith
Okay, this is a call to point to old, relevant threads (if any) and for new discussion. Before I get started, a disclaimer: I seem to have the super-power of…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: xiombarg, Clinton R. Nixon, Mike Holmes, clehrich, Cassidy, Ron Edwards, Paganini, M. J. Young, Bankuei, ADGBoss.

2/4/2003 Jack Spencer Jr: Sim Essay: reading the book is the start of play?
[quote="Ron Edwards"]How-to-play text A lot of game texts in this tradition reach for a fascinating ideal: that reading the book is actually the start of play, moving seamlessly into group…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Jack Spencer Jr, clehrich, Mike Holmes, Ron Edwards, xiombarg, lumpley, Trevis Martin, M. J. Young, Le Joueur, Walt Freitag, Valamir, marknau, Ian Charvill.

2/4/2003 xiombarg: The Impossible
Okay, as y'all know, I've been talking a lot about GNS and myown game, Unsung, as of late. The reason for it is this: In the final version of Unsung,…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: xiombarg, lumpley, Jack Spencer Jr, Ron Edwards, Marco.

2/4/2003 xiombarg: Incoherence is Fun!
Okay, I'm creating a lot of threads lately, ignore me if I'm annoying. What I want to discuss is this: I honestly enjoy all three modes of play. Seriously. I…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: xiombarg, Mike Holmes, Jack Spencer Jr, Ron Edwards, Marco, M. J. Young, clehrich, contracycle, Le Joueur.

2/5/2003 jburneko: The Role of Theme; Simulationism vs. Narrativism
These two paragraphs in Ron's new essay really caught my attention: The key word is "genre," which in this case refers to a certain combination of the five elements…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: jburneko, xiombarg, Ron Edwards.

2/6/2003 Matt Snyder: Character Improvement, taken for granted?
I'd like to question something that I think is often taken for granted, or at least not spefically addressed often: Character improvement. Is character improvement (improving character effectiveness, as Ron…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Matt Snyder, Mike Holmes, Ron Edwards, Blake Hutchins, contracycle, szilard, M. J. Young, Walt Freitag, clehrich, Jack Spencer Jr, Andrew Martin, xiombarg, Emily Care, cruciel, ADGBoss, John Kim, Valamir.

2/6/2003 jburneko: Setting-Premise Nar. vs. Setting Exploration Sim.
Hello Again, Very simple question. I really like this passage from Ron's latest essay: The simple one: Consider the behavioral parameters of a samurai player-character in Sorcerer and in…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: jburneko, Ron Edwards, clehrich, contracycle, Paul Czege, Jack Spencer Jr, Le Joueur, John Kim, Paganini.

2/8/2003 John Kim: Confused over Simulationism + example campaign
A few days ago, Ron commented about one of my examples "Look, Narrativism!" I didn't know how to reply, and I decided to read more articles and threads. I have…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: John Kim, Bob McNamee, clehrich, Jack Spencer Jr, Le Joueur, Paganini, Garbanzo, greyorm, Andrew Martin, lumpley, M. J. Young, Ron Edwards, JMendes, Matt, Valamir, ThreeGee, Mike Holmes.

2/9/2003 Brian Leybourne: GNS: Do I get the prize? :-)
I don't know if anyone has ever risen to the challenge before, but, well, it's a slow day at work :-) There was a young man from Schenectady Who fell…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Brian Leybourne, Ron Edwards, clehrich, greyorm, joshua neff, Jared A. Sorensen, marknau, lumpley, Walt Freitag, ethan_greer.

2/11/2003 clehrich: GNS model as artistic principles
In the RPG Theory thread Be somebody, greyorm wrote: Another example is groups who struggle to gain their Holy Grail of play -- frex, that moment of Narrativism…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: clehrich, Ron Edwards, greyorm, John Kim, Paul Czege, Mike Holmes.

2/11/2003 Wulf: What am I?
No, not one of those dumb quizzes (although I am MUCH bigger than a breadbox). I have a problem fitting in to my gaming group, and, being too mean to…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Wulf, Valamir, greyorm, Paul Czege, John Kim, Mike Holmes, Bob McNamee, TJ, clehrich, Ron Edwards.

2/12/2003 Jack Spencer Jr: How does one Explore Colour?
I think I understand at least some of the possible ways to Explore the other elements of roleplay: Character, Setting, Situation, System; but Colour eludes me. Perhaps it's because I…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Jack Spencer Jr, Ron Edwards, Le Joueur, Emily Care.

2/12/2003 clehrich: Interpersonal reward system
I actually think the Pavlovian system can be made to work well, but the trick is to do it without it becoming the GM and all his dogs. A trick…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: clehrich, Paul Czege, Le Joueur, Mike Holmes, John Kim, Ron Edwards, contracycle, Bankuei, Wulf, Valamir.

2/13/2003 Mortaneus: Tri-level GNS play & Tron
Hmm....I can think of a possible way to incorporate all three into a game design...don't know if this would work or not...but.... Concept: TRON (the movie) Play the users from…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Mortaneus, Ron Edwards, contracycle, Mike Holmes, Walt Freitag, Jack Spencer Jr, szilard, Stuart DJ Purdie.

2/16/2003 ThreeGee: octaNe == Sim: Color ?
Hey all, In Ron's recent review of Jared's octaNe, he states that the game falls into the Sim camp, specifically as a Sim: Color-facilitating game. My personal reaction is, "WHAT!?!"…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: ThreeGee, Clinton R. Nixon, Ron Edwards, Bankuei, Maurice Forrester, Jared A. Sorensen, Mike Holmes, Tim Gray.

2/17/2003 Bankuei: Premise on a Platter
Premise has been summed up, most simply as, “What do you do?”, or “What is this game about?” Looking at Ron’s review of octaNe, and his conparison to Inspectres, it…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Bankuei, Ron Edwards, Jack Spencer Jr, bowlingm, Mike Holmes.

2/19/2003 Jack Spencer Jr: GNS will fade into the background of RPG Theory
I realized something very important about GNS which is that it will and should fade into the background of the theory. I doubt if it will fade away entirely. It…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Jack Spencer Jr, Mike Holmes, Bankuei, Rob MacDougall, M. J. Young.

2/19/2003 Jeremy Cole: Narrative Premise.
In RPG terms, I have seen Narrative Premise given mostly as a question, such as "What will you risk for..." or "What price will you pay for...". Now, I always…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Jeremy Cole, M. J. Young, Ron Edwards, Valamir, contracycle.

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