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In GNS Model Discussion

8/28/2003 pete_darby: (mis?) Applying GNS to other game media...
A UK computer magazine (Edge) has published a series of specials looking at the state of the various computer / console platforms. In the PC edition, there's an article on…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: pete_darby, contracycle, Wormwood, John Kim, Mike Holmes, WDFlores.

8/28/2003 M. J. Young: GNS Analysis--Post Play
[quote="Ron Edwards"]M.J., I'm having a hard time seeing how your insight is a new thing. I mean, I'm glad you wrote it, and it makes perfect sense, and it's all…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: M. J. Young, Ron Edwards, cruciel.

8/25/2003 Wormwood: In Search of an Uncertainty Principle
A decision does not possess a creative agenda. Rather the consequences of a decision evidence a dynamic which retro-actively places the decision within a creative agenda. This dynamic structure is…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Wormwood, Valamir, Mike Holmes, Marco, Ron Edwards, M. J. Young.

8/17/2003 Sir Thomas: Gamism and Director Stance
Just wondering, can Gamism and Director Stance be successfully combined? I think Rune might be like this, but from my readings on these forums, it seems that the Director stance…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Sir Thomas, jdagna, Mike Holmes, Ron Edwards.

8/16/2003 bcook1971: Simulationism does exist
I stumbled onto this site through a chain of events: a player in my AD&D 1st ed. group brought a THAC0 wheel he'd downloaded from RPG United to a game…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: bcook1971, Mad-Eye Moody, M. J. Young, Ron Edwards, simon_hibbs.

8/14/2003 jeffd: Practical Examples of GNS
I'm a newbie here, so forgive me if I'm asking something utterly foolish... I've read through most of the articles posted on GNS and I've skimmed the forum some. GNS…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: jeffd, jdagna, Eric J., Mike Holmes, Marco, Alan, Walt Freitag.

8/8/2003 Mark Johnson: Designing Games as Substitutionary for Play?
[quote="In [i][a href="http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=7171"]Reading Games as Substitutionary for Play?[/a][/i] M.J. Young"] Some time back there was a discussion about the degree to which reading the rules of a game was part…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Mark Johnson, Walt Freitag, Alan, Ron Edwards, Jack Aidley, pete_darby.

8/7/2003 Ron Edwards: "Playing my character" Part 2
In the "Playing my character" thread, John wrote, I would be curious about Ron's example of the journalist he played in Terry Gant's Call of Cthulhu game. How would you…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ron Edwards, Mike Holmes, Gordon C. Landis, John Kim, Walt Freitag, cruciel.

8/5/2003 Ron Edwards: "Playing my character"
Hello, This thread presents my response to some points raised in the Shadows in the Fog playtest discussion in Actual Play. John, this is me, rolling my eyes. You are…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ron Edwards, Mike Holmes, Walt Freitag, Marco, John Kim, cruciel, M. J. Young, A.Neill.

8/3/2003 DensityMan: GNS - what is it? (split)
[quote]Talk to someone who participates in role-playing, and focus on the precise and actual acts of role-playing themselves. Ask them, "Why do you role-play?" The most common answer is, "To…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: DensityMan, Ron Edwards.

8/1/2003 John Kim: Origin of the Threefold
Hi, This isn't exactly a GNS topic, but it seemed related enough that I thought I should put it here. I've added a new section to my webpage on the…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: John Kim, Ron Edwards.

8/1/2003 Gordon C. Landis: GNS and Dysfunction
From Ron's "GNS and Other Matters of Role-playing Theory":The person who is entirely satisfied with his or her role-playing experiences is not my target audience I think this sentence has…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Gordon C. Landis, Andrew Martin, Ron Edwards.

7/30/2003 M. J. Young: Behavior Versus Intention
I know we've discussed it before; and I know that Ron insists GNS has nothing to do with "intent"; and I know I'm on the record as disagreeing with that.…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: M. J. Young, Marco, Ian Charvill, Valamir, Ron Edwards, Gordon C. Landis.

7/26/2003 Ben Lehman: Non 3fold-based play analysis
Saw this thread, which prompted the whole thing: http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=7307 This is a short essay outlining a new method for discussing playstyles which is not directly derived from the Threefold model,…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ben Lehman, Caldis, Mike Holmes, Hunter Logan, Ron Edwards.

7/26/2003 greyorm: Criticisms of the Threefold
Larry D. Hols has just put up an article entitled "Criticism of the Threefold: Criticism of the RGFA Threefold and similar theories." It can be found here http://www.carrollsweb.com/crkdface/3foldcrit.html. Though mainly…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: greyorm, crkdface, Hunter Logan, Caldis, Marco, Mike Holmes, contracycle, Valamir, Matt Snyder, Gordon C. Landis, Paganini.

7/16/2003 Harsh Tranquility: Using GNS in our game
I have recently read through the GNS essays in the article section of this site, and evaluated myself and the way my game is being developed, and came to think…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Harsh Tranquility, Marco, WDFlores, Mike Holmes, Ron Edwards.

7/14/2003 M. J. Young: Reading Games as Substitutionary for Play?
[quote="In [i][a href="http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=7162"](rantish) Interactive Fantasy and Dysfunction[/a][/i], Wayne a.k.a. Cadriel"] What I'm getting from your whole post (I picked a line that really exemplified it well) is that you like…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: M. J. Young, Marco, greyorm, efindel, Jack Spencer Jr, xiombarg, Lxndr, talysman, gobi, jdagna, Ron Edwards, pete_darby, WDFlores, Unarmed, kamikaze.

7/13/2003 greyorm: Yet More Incoherence!
Second try...the Forge ate the first one as I was posting it. Over in No More Incoherence, Fang asks a question that has been repeated for a couple months: namely…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: greyorm, Marco, Thomas Tamblyn, Ian Charvill, WDFlores.

7/11/2003 mythusmage: On Ron's GNS Article Part One
[quote]My straightforward observation of the activity of role-playing is that many participants do not enjoy it very much. Ron Edwards, 2001 (Introduction)[/quote] I'm in the process of formatting the article…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: mythusmage, Marco, Hunter Logan, Cadriel, Valamir, ethan_greer, Mike Holmes, Thomas Tamblyn, Gordon C. Landis.

7/10/2003 Alan: Content Classes and GNS
Hi all, I believe there's a quote somewhere that says a model (or theory) is just a tool for understanding. The more tools you have, the better you can approximate…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Alan, Paul Czege.

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Subsequent Topics
In GNS Model Discussion

9/2/2003 Ron Edwards: Rough categories of Narrativist play/design
Hello, I've been discussing some Narrativism stuff with some people, and here's a little snippet, as a preview to the Narrativism essay. I most recently presented these ideas to Chris…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ron Edwards, Green, Paul Czege, joshua neff, HMT, Mike Holmes, Valamir, Walt Freitag, cruciel, Bankuei, Matt Snyder, John Kim, Marco.

9/3/2003 Ben Lehman: [split] Imbedded in Sim play is...
split from http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=7819 I plan to spend a fair amount of time talking about how play/design in this category is extremely vulnerable to Narrativist powergaming (which is basically…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ben Lehman, WDFlores, gentrification, contracycle, Ron Edwards, Tony Irwin, Jack Spencer Jr, Wormwood.

9/11/2003 MonkeyWrench: Can someone explain some things
I've recently decided to step out of the Riddle of Steel forum and explore the rest of the site and I'm afraid I need some terms explained to me so…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: MonkeyWrench, MachMoth, ethan_greer, WDFlores, Ron Edwards.

9/19/2003 Ian O'Rourke: GNS and NWN
Okay, I've put this in Actual Play, because it was sort of kicked off by Actual Play issues. I will also say now, I apply NO value judegements in this…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ian O'Rourke, Andrew Norris, Ron Edwards, Marco, TheShireReeve, contracycle.

9/22/2003 Ian O'Rourke: Underworld and GNS
I think Underworld is the first movie I've seen that models the whole Relationship Map, Kicker, etc set-up. I'd see it for that alone if your interested. The movie starts…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ian O'Rourke, Ben Lehman, Ron Edwards, John Kim, pete_darby.

9/22/2003 Wormwood: "Realism" valued in both G and S?
This is an idea that stems from technical play analysis I've been doing. The common assumptions I've encountered indicate that the desire for the game to match real world features…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Wormwood, Ron Edwards.

9/22/2003 Ben Lehman: Setting Design Technique: N or S
So, as I further try to get a handle on these terms, I'm going to ask about the way that I tend to design settings for RPGs. I will note…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ben Lehman, Ron Edwards.

9/22/2003 Ben Lehman: relationship maps as S technique
For clarification, I see most of my games as S / N overlapping -- strong exploration of setting and character and no-collusion actor stance play with strong setting based premise…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ben Lehman, hanschristianandersen, Gordon C. Landis, jdagna, M. J. Young, John Kim, Ron Edwards.

9/23/2003 John Kim: Front-loaded relationship-driven Nar/Sim overlap
OK, the subject here is Ben Lehman's description of a common style of his games, detailed more in this thread. The key point about this style is that…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: John Kim, Mike Holmes, AnyaTheBlue, Ron Edwards, jdagna, Ben Lehman, Gordon C. Landis, Marco, GreatWolf, Lxndr, M. J. Young.

9/24/2003 Ian Charvill: Invention as a Creative Agenda
The reason that I role play is because I get to make things up. Futhermore the stuff I make up has to be in some way compelling to the other…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ian Charvill, Wormwood, Lxndr, Ben Lehman, jburneko, Gordon C. Landis, Walt Freitag, Valamir, Ron Edwards, AnyaTheBlue.

9/24/2003 Ben Lehman: Struggle in RPGs
This is entirely based on this thread: http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=8092 So I was thinking about the "Vanilla Simulationists" mentioned in this thread with regard to my own experiences with highly immersionist play…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ben Lehman, Matt Wilson, Ron Edwards, pete_darby, AnyaTheBlue, contracycle, Ian Charvill, Landon Darkwood.

9/25/2003 M. J. Young: Clarifying Simulationism
I'm trying to catch up with all the posts over on the Front-loaded relationship-driven Nar/Sim overlap thread, and I'm getting boggled with all the "this is what sim means…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: M. J. Young, AnyaTheBlue, jdagna, John Kim, pete_darby, Lxndr, Ron Edwards, Valamir, Ian Charvill, Walt Freitag, Marco, Jonathan Walton, Wormwood, ethan_greer, Ben Lehman, Gordon C. Landis.

9/25/2003 xiombarg: hidden information and Narrativism
In various threads regarding Unsung, particularly during play, Mike points to the idea some of the players have had that information hiding is okay (while others shared all information, even…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: xiombarg, Ron Edwards, Matt Snyder, Mike Holmes.

9/26/2003 AnyaTheBlue: Illusionism: Nothing up my sleeve
Hi, all! In my quest to work out how GNS is put together, I'm finding myself trying to figure out where I fit. After reading the Sim article, I thought…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: AnyaTheBlue, Marco, M. J. Young.

9/26/2003 Jonathan Walton: Defining Roleplaying (According to GNS)
With Ron's recent statements in the Clarifying Simulationism thread, I actually think we're damn close to defining roleplaying, at least according to GNS and the general theory precepts that most…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Jonathan Walton, Valamir, Ron Edwards, AnyaTheBlue, Gordon C. Landis, pete_darby, M. J. Young, lumpley.

9/29/2003 Gordon C. Landis: Things NOT GNS (including g, n, and s)
This seemed best as a new post, though it is directly spawned by Clarifying Simulationism and similiar recent threads. Let me start with three fairly simple statements that…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Gordon C. Landis, pete_darby, Ian Charvill, Wormwood, Ron Edwards, AnyaTheBlue, jdagna, M. J. Young, Walt Freitag, Valamir, Mike Holmes.

9/29/2003 AnyaTheBlue: Possible summary of GNS
Hi, All! A number of recent threads (and my own noodling) over the GNS theory as a whole have lead me to write a description of what I think the…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: AnyaTheBlue, Ron Edwards, jdagna.

9/29/2003 deadpanbob: Technique(s) as Discriminating Characteristics of GNS
In this thread... Currency, IIEE, character creation, resolution (DFK), reward systems, and the comparatively fleeting Stances, are all "spheres" of Techniques. Can we talk about a given profile,…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: deadpanbob, AnyaTheBlue, M. J. Young, John Kim, Mike Holmes, Ron Edwards.

9/30/2003 Wormwood: Hybridization Question
I'm currently looking for the theoretical underpinnings of the statement that in a GNS hybrid has a primary and some number of secondary modes. I've viewed this statement as a…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Wormwood, Gordon C. Landis, M. J. Young, jdagna, AnyaTheBlue, Mike Holmes, deadpanbob, Marco.

10/9/2003 Palaskar: Minimum number of GNS roles?
After reading "Applied Theory" by M.J. Young, I got inspired. It seems to me, mechanically, there are a minimum of five GNS roles with regard to system. Broken down, they…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Palaskar, Ron Edwards, M. J. Young.

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