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In GNS Model Discussion

2/13/2004 Mark D. Eddy: A problem with the Intro to the GNS Essay
[quote="Ron"]My straightforward observation of the activity of role-playing is that many participants do not enjoy it very much. Most role-players I encounter are tired, bitter, and frustrated.[/quote] Interestingly, most of…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Mark D. Eddy, Valamir, Scourge108, Rich Forest, Ron Edwards, Silmenume.

2/13/2004 Shreyas Sampat: Omni-Play and Incoherence
Split from The Omni-Player. Caldis raised a question about the implications Omni-Play has on incoherence that I wanted to reply to. If the omni-player is possible and games that appeal…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Shreyas Sampat, Paganini, Caldis, Ron Edwards, Marhault, charles ferguson, M. J. Young, Mike Holmes.

2/12/2004 Doctor Xero: context and G/N/S in game design
coxcomb wrote Thu Feb 05, 2004 7:43 pm: ] Context (the way that I have defined it) has to do with character. It is something that ] helps you play…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Doctor Xero, lumpley, james_west, Ron Edwards.

2/12/2004 anonymouse: Narrative modules
Split from http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=9751 . . . if playing this particular game worked so wonderfully to free the participants into wildly…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: anonymouse, ScottM, Mike Holmes, Peter Nordstrand, Ron Edwards, Blankshield, M. J. Young, clehrich, Halzebier, John Kim, Sean, Christopher Kubasik, Andrew Norris.

2/12/2004 bcook1971: Response to the Supporting Essays
I just finished reading all three GNS support essays and wanted to air some of my reactions. That's why it's often referred to…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: bcook1971, Sean, pete_darby, Mike Holmes, Ron Edwards, M. J. Young.

2/12/2004 Emily Care: creative agenda game
Hey Folks, This is quick and fun. In 25 words or less, describe your creative agenda from an actual game or campaign you have played. What do I mean by…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Emily Care, cruciel, Paganini, Alan, Mark D. Eddy, pete_darby, Mike Holmes, anonymouse.

2/12/2004 John Kim: What is traditional play really?
So it seems to me that a lot of the current definition discussions are getting lost in somewhat abstract consideration of the definitions. GNS Simulationism is defined abstractly as "exploration…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: John Kim, Emily Care, cruciel, coxcomb, Valamir.

2/11/2004 Scourge108: Beeg Horseshoe
I apologize for my ignorance, but I keep hearing reference to the "Beeg Horseshoe Theory" on some of these threads, but I haven't found what that theory actually posits. Could…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Scourge108, ethan_greer, Ron Edwards, Mike Holmes.

2/10/2004 Mike Holmes: The Omni-Player
It occured to me, quite a while back, that if one understood what one was doing, that one could, in play, decide to make decisions that were congruent more often.…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Mike Holmes, Clinton R. Nixon, C. Edwards, Emily Care, Valamir, Paganini, Marhault, xiombarg, Mark D. Eddy, charles ferguson, Caldis.

2/10/2004 M. J. Young: Understanding: the "it" of Simulationism
I was very unhappy with Mike Holmes' conclusions in The Roots of Sim II (in his post of February 9th, if it has continued), so I'm starting a new…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: M. J. Young, Rob Carriere, Mike Holmes, Jack Spencer Jr, Silmenume, clehrich, Walt Freitag, C. Edwards, cruciel, Emily Care, Sean, Caldis, Ron Edwards.

2/8/2004 sirogit: Long-running narrativist games?
Has anyone here ever played a narrativist game that went on for more than one year? Are their inherent limitations on running length of a Narrativist game that still addresses…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: sirogit, Ron Edwards, james_west, inthisstyle, greyorm, brainwipe, Mike Holmes, newsalor.

2/4/2004 Mike Holmes: The roots of Sim II
I can't believe that I'm about to do this at this point. If Gamism and Narrativism are the modes that are most accessible (am I using the correct terminology now…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Mike Holmes, Ron Edwards, Walt Freitag, Jack Spencer Jr, Bankuei, james_west, Gordon C. Landis, jdagna, John Kim, clehrich, cruciel, talysman, Caldis, Silmenume, Sean, M. J. Young, Asrogoth.

2/3/2004 gobi: Non-Gamist Rewards
So I'm working on mockups in the studio last night and it suddenly dawns on me that I can't think of any method of rewards (which I'm defining as "positive…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: gobi, Sean, Lxndr, Alan, Marhault, Ron Edwards, Harlequin, Gordon C. Landis, cruciel, M. J. Young, Rob Carriere, coxcomb, Shreyas Sampat.

2/1/2004 clehrich: Confusion about Nar and Story
[quote="Ron, in the Nar essay,"]There cannot be any "the story" during Narrativist play, because to have such a thing (fixed plot [u][b]or pre-agreed theme[/u][/b]) is to remove the whole point:…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: clehrich, james_west, Ron Edwards, Paganini, Blankshield, pete_darby.

2/1/2004 Herr Doktor: Simulationists and Gamists enjoying the same session?
After some discussion our role-playing group came to the realization that according to our own experiences our prefered GNS modes do not match up. Our group consists of six persons,…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Herr Doktor, jdagna, Ron Edwards.

1/31/2004 Alan: Narrativist Hard Questions
In his essay Narrativism: Story Now, Ron proposes the “hard” questions. Here are my responses: Are you Simulationist-by-habit? … if you'd rather be addressing Premise,…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Alan, james_west, Jack Spencer Jr, Christopher Kubasik, M. J. Young, pete_darby, Ron Edwards.

1/31/2004 Ian Charvill: Pastiche in Roleplaying
Ron's clarifications over in The Roots of Sim (Response to Nar Essay) are very important if pastiche is to become part of The Forge lexicon. 1. Non-Narrativist play which produces…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ian Charvill, Ron Edwards, sirogit, Scourge108, John Kim, clehrich, Jack Spencer Jr, Nick Pagnucco, Jeff Klein.

1/31/2004 Silmenume: A huge difficulty in Sim
I think one of the great difficulties of Sim, especially where character (persona) exploration is involved is in the difficult mastery of personas. I know my phrasing is wonky, but…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Silmenume, Ian Charvill, Ron Edwards, contracycle.

1/31/2004 james_west: Gamism's hard question
Going back a few pages, I didn't see another thread on this; sorry if I missed it. Here's my answer: I have always been a competitive person, but simultaneously, I…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: james_west, Ron Edwards.

1/31/2004 james_west: ... simulationism is less common than I thought.
I've been reading Ron's set of recent essays, and I had a minor epiphany. One of my pet peeves with a lot of different games I've been in over the…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: james_west, Valamir, Ron Edwards, coxcomb.

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Subsequent Topics
In GNS Model Discussion

2/13/2004 anonymouse: Common GNS sticking points.
So, even with people who've picked up post counts over 100 and have been around for a few months, I sometimes notice these things. Incredibly basic fundamental parts of the…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: anonymouse, Bankuei, Walt Freitag, Mike Holmes.

2/13/2004 Walt Freitag: Zilchplay [split from "Understanding: the "it"
I'm splitting my response to several posts about so-called "zilchplay" in the thread Understanding: the "it" of Simulationism to a new thread, since the topic is a bit of a…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Walt Freitag, cruciel, ScottM, Silmenume, clehrich, Ron Edwards.

2/14/2004 Caldis: Narrativism IS about story!!
In this thread http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=9773 anonymouse stated the following Wanting to "tell a story" does not necessarily have anything to do with Narrativist decisions. While this statement it true when…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Caldis, james_west, Ian Charvill, Lxndr, greyorm, cruciel, Paganini, Ron Edwards.

2/15/2004 Jack Spencer Jr: Narrativism is Exploration of Character
Narrativism is exploration of character. Whoa, Nelly! Let me explain. In old episode of the Simpsons: Lisa is depressed than usual about her looks. After failing to cheer her up,…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Jack Spencer Jr, james_west, Sean, Bankuei, Christopher Kubasik, John Kim, cruciel, M. J. Young, lumpley, Caldis, Ron Edwards, Mike Holmes, Ian Charvill.

2/16/2004 Sean: The Social Mode
These discussions on Sim and Zilchplay have had a weird effect on my thinking. The basic question that GNS puts to you, or put to me anyway, is: what do…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Sean, timfire, Ron Edwards, clehrich, pete_darby, M. J. Young, Silmenume, contracycle, Rob Carriere, Dev.

2/16/2004 Mike Holmes: Mike's Standard Rant #7: You Can't Sneak Up on Mode
As usual, I'm posting this as shorthand for a post that I make all too often. It's not intended to generate feedback, but I'd be glad to debate it, or…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Mike Holmes, Scripty, John Kim, Ron Edwards, james_west, montag, Andrew Norris, xiombarg, M. J. Young, Rob MacDougall, Valamir.

2/17/2004 Silmenume: zplay - liberating Sim and embarrassing Exploration!
[quote="Ron Edwards"]What I guess I don't understand is why you consider zilchplay to have been lumped with Simulationist play. Given your definition (and especially your clarification to Emily above), it…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Silmenume, Ron Edwards, Walt Freitag, Valamir, Mike Holmes, cruciel, M. J. Young, clehrich.

2/18/2004 Jack Spencer Jr: Characterization vs Deep Character
[quote="Ron Edwards in GNS and other Matters of Roleplaying Theory"]Character: a fictional person or entity. [/quote] However, this fictional entity is made of two distinctive element that is 1) reliably…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Jack Spencer Jr, Paganini, M. J. Young, Ron Edwards, talysman, Silmenume, Caldis, Ian Charvill, cruciel, Noon.

2/18/2004 cruciel: Jason's Unified Theory of Exploration
I've split this out of zplay - liberating Sim and embarrassing Exploration! This is my take on the lumpley principle, IIEE, search and handling, points of contact (vanilla/pervy), and Fidelity…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: cruciel, M. J. Young, clehrich, Ron Edwards, pete_darby.

2/19/2004 Steve Samson: Ron, where's my prize? :)
I didn't know where to post this, but since it is in response to one of Ron's essays ("GNS and Other Matters of Roleplaying Theory"), I figured the RPG Theory…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Steve Samson, Ron Edwards, Walt Freitag.

2/20/2004 talysman: limitations on creative agenda
here's an idea I've had floating around in my head for a couple weeks. recent discussions in the thread about Mike's Standard Rant #7 prompted me to post about this…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: talysman, Ron Edwards, james_west, Andrew Norris, Emily Care, cruciel, xiombarg.

2/22/2004 Ben Lehman: Exclusivity of Creative Agenda
Yo. To people who have been around for a while, I apologize. I've brought this up before, and this is spurred by some recent conversations with another friend (hi, Dave!)…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ben Lehman, Jinx, Jack Spencer Jr, Paganini, Ron Edwards, Eero Tuovinen, james_west, M. J. Young, Ian Charvill, Emily Care, Mike Holmes.

2/23/2004 timfire: Essential Topics to Read?
Alright, I'm trying to brush up on my theory. I've already read all the esssays in the articles section and I've looked at all the topics that Ron references in…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: timfire, Ron Edwards, John Kim, cruciel, ScottM.

2/25/2004 Silmenume: Theme is not Black and White
[quote="Ron Edwards"][i]Two [/i]implicit outcomes, Jay? Sounds a little arbitrarily limited to me. I list four in Sorcerer, and that's because I'm considering only one of many, many possible qualifying variables.…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Silmenume, Ron Edwards, Valamir, pete_darby, Bankuei, cruciel, Blankshield, Mike Holmes.

2/25/2004 Valamir: Power (split)
[quote]For example, the players in my James Bond 007 game are mostly (2 out of 3) accustomed to Illusionist play. However, they pretty instantly got into taking charge to a…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Valamir, Noon, pete_darby, contracycle, Ron Edwards, John Kim, Ben Lehman.

2/24/2004 Scourge108: Simulationist Creep
[quote="talysman"] we know that certain games are Incoherent or Abashed, with major or minor technique conflicts that handicap attempts to play in a specific mode. we also know that historically,…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Scourge108, james_west, John Kim.

2/28/2004 sirogit: Using a Gamist engine for Narritivism
The initial thought that brought on this idea was, "What situations cannot be used for Narrativism?" A self-challenge of sorts. I considered the situation of a deathmatch FPS: You and…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: sirogit, Ron Edwards, Blankshield.

2/29/2004 WDFlores: Protagonism = Ability to Phrase Premise
Hi, all. Protagonism in Narrativist games is the ability of a player to both (1) phrase the Egri premise to himself; and then (2) answer that Premise. I don't think…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: WDFlores, clehrich, Ron Edwards.

3/1/2004 Noon: Question on play style and characterization
This is a question really asking 'If I choose to play things this way during a situation, does that change how the situation actually plays?' Say we start with an…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Noon, Ron Edwards, Bankuei, Blankshield, RDU Neil, Silmenume, Valamir, WDFlores, clehrich, M. J. Young, Gordon C. Landis, contracycle.

3/1/2004 RDU Neil: Simplistic GNS examples...
Cut: Realized this should be here... not RPG Theory... As I've attempted to plow through the varioud GNS articles and the like, I find my non-academic brain needing some clarification.…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: RDU Neil, Ron Edwards, jburneko, Valamir, lumpley, M. J. Young, Mike Holmes, ethan_greer, Scourge108, Doctor Xero, John Kim, Andrew Norris, Gordon C. Landis, Storn.

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