Hi all,

I'm not sure if this is the proper forum to put this post but it is about my actual gaming group, so I'll just post it and trust the moderators to move it if need be. Here's my current issue...

I have a new group of players. By new, I mean both new to me and new to the hobby in general. I have 6 players, of which, 1 is an old friend and old hand at RPGs, 1 is a new acquaintance but an old hand at RPGs and the remain 4 are friends that had never played before. The age range here is from 17 to 30, with me being the oldest at 32. Originally we started playing 3E D&D, simply because I'm a Gamist at heart (with admitted Narrativist tendancies) and it's the system I know best. We played for several sessions and fun was had by all.

Then one of my 20 year old players dropped a bomb on me. It seems his father threatened to kick him out of the house if he was caught playing D&D. His parents don't have a problem with him role-playing in general, they just don't like the Fantasy genre with it's magic and spell-casting and such. Admittedly, this is my absolute favorite genre. Still, not wanting to lose him as a player, we all agreed to change to a Sci Fi game and I chose Alternity as the ruleset and the StarDrive setting. The first go at the game didn't fare so well, so we scrapped the campaign after a couple of sessions, discussed what we didn't like about it and have agreed to try again with some changes to the style.

My problem is essentially this, I'm the only GM in the group and I'm not really into the Sci Fi genre. I like Sci Fi movies. I read Sci Fi books. I just don't really care for Sci Fi role-playing. Even if the new game goes well for the group as a whole, I'm not sure how well I'm going to enjoy it and deep down, I still want to play in a Fantasy setting.

My first impression is to simply say, "Look dude, you're 20 years old for Christ's sake. Grow some nut hair." and go back to D&D or some other Fantasy system. That seems a little harsh though and I genuinely like the kid even if he is a bit of a goober for having to ask his parent's permission to play at 20 years old. Has anyone else ever run into a problem like this? Anyone got any advice on how to handle it? Is the problem more with me not wanting to play Sci Fi? Hell, anyone with a easy fix to this will instantly be my new best friend.

Wow. What a bizarre situation. I can't fathom letting my parent play that kind of role in my life. Because of that, I wonder if he's not scamming you because he doesn't want to play the old game.

If it were me, I'd play the game I wanted to play and let him work out his problems. If he wants to play, he'll play. If not, he won't. Hell, he could run the SF game if that's his thing.

On the other hand, you could play a game that is ostensibly a sci-fi game in which through some technological experience, you are transported to a world of monsters and magicians. It could be a VR prison, a far away planet, an alternate dimension, or whatever.

What's up with his crazy parents anyway? Maybe y'all should play KPfS a few times and see if they don't beg you to go back to D&D.

Chris

Hi Andrew, and welcome.

Easy fix? Yowch.

Interestingly enough, another fellow posted a thread recently with a similar concern, but I put a stop to the discussion as it involved minors and what appeared to be a potentially ugly custody-situation. Fortunately, your deal is a lot less problematic (for the Forge, that is), and it can be discussed openly.

My call, I'm afraid, is quite brutal, and I hope it doesn't constitute a perceived smack-down for you. Try to consider it "tough love" ...

1. This guy does indeed have a problem, but I can't imagine or understand how it would be your problem, or anyone else's in your group.

2. You've made it your problem, though, and now you're screwed.

Correct me if I'm wrong. You are GMing a game which you haven't enjoyed yet; there's not too much in the subject matter that is drawing you; the group as a whole doesn't seem to have much interest in it.

... and all because this fellow and his parents have apparently transferred any conflicts they have about Real Life onto the subject matter of your role-playing activity.

Bluntly, here goes. You, and the rest of you, are taking on too much responsibility for this guy's life and life-style. The very idea of having such an issue lie solely upon your choice of what to role-play is appalling - it's appalling on his parents' part, on his part, and - with respect - on your part as well.

Does that make sense? You and your group have already validated the inappropriate weight given to the issue by everyone else. Now you're in a messed-up situation, and I'm saying, "Yeah, you stuck your leg in that trap, dint'cha? Hurts, doesn't it?"

You can't solve others' miscommunications, games, neediness, and transferred issues. You can only concern yourself with enjoying your hobby, and people who can't participate without bringing in all sorts of inappropriate issues ... well, life is too short for that, in my view.

I cannot tell you what to do. Most importantly, no matter what I say, it cannot justify what you intend to do. But your post, it seems to me, called for a judgment on the parts of people here, and that would be mine. Pure judgment, in the most values-centric, "unjustified" sense of the word. My hope is that it provides, not a moral compass, but rather some food for thought.

Best,
Ron

I do hope, sincerely, he can snap out of it and live his own life. It might be that you need to administer some tough love to him, and have him deal with his parents, but conversely that's not always possible. (I've known a lot of craaaaazy parents in my time.) So, blessings be with you.

As far as the game goes: I'm surprised you jumped right from Fantasy to Sci-Fi. I'm wondering:
* what was it that made the Sci-Fi suck for you?
* what about Fantasy rocks for you?
* and therefore, what other play-styles or genres could work? (We could brainstorm some suggestions.)

You could definitely go for a low-fantasy without magic; you can achieve a lot of what is "mystical" with an assortment of mythic wuxia-level feats and grandeur etc. without resorting to Magic as such. He could (ugh) check with his parents to see if its okay.

You know. I'm not really seeing any of this as a "problem".

This entire situation boils down to choices.

Sometimes we have to choose between two things that we want but we can't have both. Sometimes the choice is trivial...we'd like both pie andcake for desert...but we can't have both.

Here, your friend has two things he wants. He wants to stay on good terms with his parents and he wants to keep playing D&D. Well, it may suck, but he can't have both. He's going to have to choose one or the other...give up D&D or risk damaging his relationship with his folks.

You also have a choice. You want to keep playing D&D and keep playing with your friend. Well. If your friend decides to give up D&D you can't have both either. You're going to have to choose. Keep playing D&D which your friend won't play. Or keep playing with your friend and give up D&D.

It really is just that simple. Pick one.

The choices suck...but there's a word for that...Life.

Your younger friends are going to have to get used it.

oops.

Valamir wrote: Here, your friend has two things he wants. He wants to stay on good terms with his parents and he wants to keep playing D&D. Well, it may suck, but he can't have both.

Thanks to everyone for the replies.

After considering the current responses, I have to say I agree with you Ron. I know this player pretty well and I know his parents and I like them despite their hangup with Fantasy RPGs. That's probably why I opted to change games without fully considering what I was doing. Stupid me and completely my fault since I brought the idea to the group and asked them to buy into it. I should have just stuck with the original game and let him decide whether he wanted to participate or not. Personally, I think it'd do him some good to get kicked out of his house and have to make it on his own but that's a whole other can of worms.

I'm going to change my question a bit now. What suggestions would y'all have about resolving the situation now that it's here? I'm partially inclined to just say, "Screw it. We're going back to the other game." However, several of the players went out and acquired Alternity material just for the purpose of playing and I hate to make that a waste for them. Perhaps playing 4 or 5 sessions of Sci Fi and then a number of sessions of Fantasy? Anyone had any success or failures with that set up?

Dev, I'm not sure why I don't care for Sci Fi role-playing. I've done some Star Wars and Robotech as a player in the past and had reasonably good experiences. However, it just doesn't grab my imagination like Fantasy does.

The kpfs sounds like a wonderful idea... heh.

BTW... Ron and whoever else, don't worry about sounding harsh. I've got a really thick skin and am very hard to offend. Besides, you don't know me from Adam so who cares if you piss me off, right? :-)

No matter how much they spent on Alternity, playing a dull game of it is not going to make up for it. That's just wasting their time on top of their money.

Bring it up to the group and say that you want to go back. If the boy's parents aren't bluffing then he should distance himself from their wacky asses as soon as possible anyway. If they are...um, I guess he should still get away. They sound like bad news to me.

Chris

Gaerik wrote: However, several of the players went out and acquired Alternity material just for the purpose of playing and I hate to make that a waste for them. Perhaps playing 4 or 5 sessions of Sci Fi and then a number of sessions of Fantasy? Anyone had any success or failures with that set up?

Gaerik wrote: I'm going to change my question a bit now. What suggestions would y'all have about resolving the situation now that it's here? I'm partially inclined to just say, "Screw it. We're going back to the other game." However, several of the players went out and acquired Alternity material just for the purpose of playing and I hate to make that a waste for them.

There are alternatives to fantasy and sci-fi. Do you like wild west (Boot Hill)? Kung-fu action (Wushu, Pagoda, Feng Shui)? Superspy technothrillers (James Bond 007, Spycraft)? If there's a genre you like as much as Fantasy, finding an appropriate game could be your key.

Good luck,
--Jeff

I'll chime in with the "grow a pair" camp. It's time for both you and your friend to decide what they want in life and make a choice. Any choice is good, so long as you all agree to do it. Myself, I can't imagine living at home at the age of 20, but I moved out of my parents house when I was 18, so I can't put myself in your friend's position so easily.

As for games, 7th Sea has worked pretty well for our group's efforts to play a fantasy type setting without any 20 sided dice in sight (I get a rash). Call of Cthulhu also feeds our need pretty well.

This is funny, because I have had a similar situation, but with my own parents. The whole magic and witchcraft thing always concerned them. So the system I have uses "technology" instead of magic. The funny thing is, the technology is controlled by the mind and by words, so it's basically like magic! And of course, the characters don't actually realize it's technology, making the system feel fantasy-like, but not have any actual magic in it.

Hope this helps.

Have you considered just changing the setting of your Sci-Fi gaming? I don't know alot about StarDrive, but I'm under the impression that it's a "HardSci" setting. That is, strong adherance to the technocratic applications of the sci-fi genre. Perhaps a setting with more of the feel of Dune? That is to say, just because there are space ships, psionics, and other technological trappings that does not mean that the story and setting can't be Fantastic. Right?

I once ran an Alternity game that I intended to have a Dune & StarWars feel to it. The PCs rode their own spacecraft (complete with AI pilot), but wore a combination of victorian-era upper-class clothing and nazi officer uniforms. They visited a flying castle (held up by technoligical anti-gravity fields), and investigated the plottings of the Duke cousins to take over part of the Duke's land.

I wish you luck in getting all this problem sorted out. Quite the pickle you've put yourself in.

-Eric

Hi Andrew,

To be honest, I find that when you're dealing with a dysfunctional situation, there's no "being reasonable about it". There's just some people you can't please, no matter what you do.

Honestly, the player's situation boils down to two different possibilities, both of which are out of your control:

-His parents simply like inflicting power trips, and hanging threats over his head, but will probably not actually follow through, or

-His parents, for whatever reason, actually will kick him out.

In both cases, whatever sort of power struggles are going on with your player are completely out of your hand, and rest between him and his parents.

You, on the other hand, and your group, have your enjoyment completely within your control.

Chris

i see the situation you're in and it is kind of horrible. gaming politics aside, and the fact that you could always drop this guy from you're group if you had to, at the same time it isn't fun to lose a player in your group who you could also be friends with. i would suggest another course of action before "cutting out the cancer", if you will.

you mentioned that you know this player's parents and seem to get along with them. is there any way you could talk to them? perhaps get them to see your side of things? i assume that they have some kind of religious/"moral" problem with the game's magickal setting? perhaps if you described the game to them as something akin to watching the Lord of the Rings movies or what have you, then things wouldn't be so bad. then agian, they could've boycotted the LotR flicks...

if this doesn't work and you can't find a happy medium within your play group, i woud definetly suggest asking the player if he would be okay leaving the group, at least until things cool down with his parents.

just an idea though... ;-)

Hi Andrew,

I once had a player with a similar restriction against Fantasy games, but in his case it was self-imposed. He was a devout Jehovah's Witness, you see, and he felt that Fantasy games, while not inherently evil, conflicted with his faith's proscription against witchcraft and magic. He was a very fine roleplayer, however, and would eagerly play almost anything else.

I understand that Science-Fiction is not your forte, but sometimes we do our best when pushed outside our comfort zones. Have you considered mixing genres? Alternity had a number of published settings, some of which would blend nicely. You could run a SF-Western a la Firefly or Cowboy Bebop, a Science-Fantasy a la Camelot 3000 or Star Wars, or any number of other combinations. Heck, look into TSR's old Star Frontiers for a SF setting with less of a hard edge.

You could also express your discomfort to either of your "old hands", who might also be able to assume gamemastering duties in your stead. If you do not mind playing SF, that may be your best solution. Clearly this fellow wants to play with your group. Given that decent players are getting more and more difficult to come by, do you really want to turn him away? Have you discussed this with the rest of the group? Communication is vital, in situations like these.

One thing you should not do, in my humble opinion, is encourage this lad to get himself kicked out of his parents' home over a game... at least not unless you are willing to put him up. I work with the disenfranchised poor every day, and being homeless is no picnic. This is especially true for the young. Sit down and talk with his parents, if nothing else. I attended an all-male Catholic college prep school and managed to convince the monks who ran it that roleplaying, even Fantasy, had more to do with creativity, teamwork and socialization than misogyny, morbidity and the occult.

RaconteurX wrote: One thing you should not do, in my humble opinion, is encourage this lad to get himself kicked out of his parents' home over a game... at least not unless you are willing to put him up. I work with the disenfranchised poor every day, and being homeless is no picnic.

I appreciate everyone's opinion on the subject and I've certainly gleened some good insight on the questions I asked. I didn't mean for this to become a debate on good / bad parenting or whether I should get some guy kicked out of his home. Both of those subjects seem a little off topic and I don't see any good coming from debating them here. Everyone will be happy to know, I've taken steps I hope will rectify the situation and if people are really interested, I'll let you know how it turns out. Until then, as the person who started this thread (and with no other authority implied or otherwise), I'd like to thank everyone for their input and ask that the subject be put to rest before people's tempers flare.

Thanks,

Good call Andrew.

Do let us know how it works out. Its of interest as a data point if nothing else.

I do think it should be added that this "kid" is actually an adult and responsible for his or her own actions, not his or her parents. If he or she chooses not to play a fantasy game, regardless of the reason, it is their decision. This decision should, of course, be respected, but likewise respect dictates that the adult in question not make it other people's problem. It looks to me like this is a discussion between the gamer and his parents (or himself, parents could just be an excuse), not the gaming group.

I second Ralph's sentiments. Much depends on the maturity of the fellow in question, but I hope you have a satisfactory resolution soon. Keep us informed.

Agreed. Besides, this forum isn't about parenting, it's about roleplaying! I think everybody should refer to http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=10285 for the rest of the discussion about the real issue at hand.

Hi everyone,

Let's respect Andrew's wishes and close this thread. No more posting, please.

Best,
Ron