Topic: Overwhelmed by Publishing
Started by: Avalloc
Started on: 6/29/2005
Board: Publishing
On 6/29/2005 at 11:31am, Avalloc wrote:
Overwhelmed by Publishing
I have been lurking around these forums for a while, and I seen tons of useful info and been lead to all sorts of resources and other interesting websites. But I think I need to start getting specific answers. Or if possible have someone gently point out my business or (heaven forbid :) ) game mechanic short comings.
I have just published my RPG Stonelinked on lulu.com
http://people.lulu.com/users/index.php?fHomepage=182373
I think this is a good first step. It is only $5 for the pdf and it is 270 pages. I figure I don't have a chance getting in DTRPG. Not that the game isn't good, it might need some polish to make it easier to follow without me being there to clarify, but people seem impressed and have fun playing. The art work is functional but not awe-inspiring. That is why I think bothering DTRPG would be futile. With RPG Now, they want money to set-up an account and they got those rules about removing products if they don't sell. I may go with RPG Now someday, but I think I need maybe a bit better art and want more products to spread out the cost of the account.
I need to know:
How to describe what I have created accurately and excitingly?
How do you get reviewed? (for later on)
How can I tell if the PDF is ready for print (formating wise)?
(All confused about the mirrored margins and telling if the page is facing right)
(Worried about image quality and pixilation)
And if anyone takes a look at Stonelinked itself:
Should I break it into smaller books?
Should I extract the magic system, and make it a product for any kind of RPG?
Which art should I keep, and which should I seriously consider improving or replacing.
Is the combat system robust enough, that I should include it as the basis of combat in other games I hope to make. Or should I seriously consider reworking it for later games and/or Stonelinked itself?
What I really feel like asking, what should I do next, cause my todo list only has Post on The Forge about publishing, and Post to my MMORPG Guild's Forum about having published. If that was all I had posted here it sure would have been a shorter post :) but I don't know that I would get the kind of answers I really need.
I guess the publishing part wasn't all that overwhelming, but running the game company after publishing sure is. help!
On 6/29/2005 at 2:13pm, Michael S. Miller wrote:
RE: Overwhelmed by Publishing
Hi, Avalloc. Welcome to The Forge!
Many, many folks who begin publishing RPGs have the exact same questions. Many of them have been addressed in the thread Getting material reviewed/ PR/ Advert and a number of the threads linked within that one.
Forge Reference Links:
Topic 14380
On 6/29/2005 at 2:52pm, Avalloc wrote:
RE: Overwhelmed by Publishing
Thanks for the welcome Michael.
I think I should have paid more attention to the Promotion, Promotion, Promotion thread.
I looked at the Getting material reviewed/ PR/ Advert thread earlier and got hung up on not being able to attend any Conventions.
So how do I put the call out for people willing to post about play? And how do I get them the files? If I really compress the graphics I could probably email them the files, though they would still be a little big for an email.
Forge Reference Links:
Topic 13268
On 6/29/2005 at 3:38pm, MatrixGamer wrote:
Re: Overwhelmed by Publishing
Avalloc wrote:
I need to know:
How to describe what I have created accurately and excitingly?
How do you get reviewed? (for later on)
How can I tell if the PDF is ready for print (formating wise)?
(All confused about the mirrored margins and telling if the page is facing right)
(Worried about image quality and pixilation)
And if anyone takes a look at Stonelinked itself:
Should I break it into smaller books?
Should I extract the magic system, and make it a product for any kind of RPG?
Which art should I keep, and which should I seriously consider improving or replacing.
Is the combat system robust enough, that I should include it as the basis of combat in other games I hope to make. Or should I seriously consider reworking it for later games and/or Stonelinked itself?
Greg
Clearly you've done a lot of work. A good start. It sounds like you're questioning you game design so you probably need to do more play testing. The nice thing about selling via print on demand is that you can update your book as you go along. You are wanting to begin spreading the word at the same time so testing and marketing can be combined. Of course play the game with your friends (though don't bore them with it if you can help it!) The first step to reaching the wider world is to run your game at conventions. Send an event purposal to the con coordinator and show up. You'll find they are always looking for games to fill time so you'll get in. As you run your games you'll be refining you sales spiel. You'll have to recruit players as they walk by - which teaches running a booth skills. The players will push your game to the max so holes will be revield. You'll also generate some sales for your book this way. Take some time to build up a fan base doing this - get others to run your game as soon as you can (start with friends then move to enthusiasts you meet while running your events).
In writing ad copy I personally exclude words like Philosophy, exciting, innovative, completely unheard of, etc. This kind of hype doesn't say anything and turns off some people. Descriptions of rules mechanisms are also unproductive. An ad gives sizzle without meat. They'll buy the book for that.
Now your book, 270 pages is a big book. If you sell a PDF it's cheap to do. Selling a paper cpoy would be costly. If you are thinking of breaking it up that might be a reason to do so. Don't be surprised or embarrassed when you spot typos and miss spellings. Just fix them as they come up. You will also be improving your art for years to come. Each change is a moment to learn. Sadly we all find hundreds of ways to do things wrong.
Don't be afraid to learn and please give your project at least three years. I've been working on Matrix Games for seventeen years and have learned a lot. Whenever I think to give it up I ask myself "If I wasn't doing this what else would I be doing?" So far the answer has not been better or more noble than working on games. I know on my death bed I will not regret my time spent doing so.
So get out to those conventions and get first hand feedback on your game! Also if you want to talk about game business stuff drop by the Hamster Press booth at Origins or GenCon.
Sincerely
Chris Engle
Hamster Press
On 6/29/2005 at 6:18pm, Avalloc wrote:
RE: Overwhelmed by Publishing
I now have samples from the book up where people can see them. I should have done this sooner. But it is only my first day at this RPG publishing business.
If you go to http://www.lulu.com/content/138901 and scroll just past the Description the Preview this e-book (PDF) link is now there and it has a selection of pages from the book. I'd love feedback about the sample and the game content it shows.
Chris,
Thanks for the advice. I'm not sure how much convention going I'll be able to do, but I'll give the project some time to grow. It's good to know that there are others that have gone through this process before.
On 6/29/2005 at 10:45pm, abzu wrote:
RE: Overwhelmed by Publishing
Hi Greg,
I glanced through your sample pdf. There's some neat stuff in there, but I think the whole game needs another revision. I see lots of stuff that could probably be distilled down to what's essential. Guilt and Sorrow sound cool and different. Confidence sounds neat, too.
But you have tables for each skill resolution. Baaaaad. You have the unholy trinity of Combat/Magic/The rest of the Game. You have millions of points to calculate with. Ugh.
And don't forget to spell check. Always spell check. Always. And see if you can get someone to read over your stuff for bits the spell check won't pick up. For example, interest is "piqued," not "peaked."
gotta run.
-L
On 6/30/2005 at 12:35am, davidJ wrote:
RE: Overwhelmed by Publishing
I checked it out as well.
Definately check the spelling. The third sentence on page two of the product demo has a typo. I'm sure when you read it, you will see what I mean. :)
If the demo has obvious typos, that's not good.
I'm not complaining. I admire you for doing the work and getting your product out there. I'm just pointing out stuff to help you.
Good luck in all your endeavors!
On 6/30/2005 at 5:33am, Avalloc wrote:
RE: Overwhelmed by Publishing
Okay, made the corrections to the sample. Thanks for point those out. The book itself has been proofed 2-3 times (sure it still has a few things that need tiding up). I gave the sample a quick read, and unless I let a bit of writing sit for a while, my mind reads it as I intended instead of as I wrote it.
How do I get away from tables for each skill? I have a bit about you don't need to use the tables if your going to Role-play your way along.
abzu wrote: You have the unholy trinity of Combat/Magic/The rest of the Game.
When did that trinity become unholy? What is the currently accepted structure?
abzu wrote: There's some neat stuff in there, but I think the whole game needs another revision.
That's what this edition is mostly about :) That is why I brought it to you people first. You'll see things that need to be changed, but be able to sympathise with someone starting out.
abzu wrote: You have millions of points to calculate with.
Well if you mean the dragon's health. Your not suppost to be able to finish him off in a game session, he is suppost to last as long as your character does, so he would be a problem for 60-100 game years, which probably take a year or 5 to play. He doesn't heal up either, so any damage you inflict stays with him. And given that you can't be killed you can go at him any number of times a game session.
Magic is pretty complex beast as well, it also suffers from a number crunching problem. I'm not yet sure how to fix that.
On 6/30/2005 at 5:46am, abzu wrote:
RE: Overwhelmed by Publishing
Avalloc wrote: When did that trinity become unholy? What is the currently accepted structure?
It's unholy only in my eyes. I have wrestled with the same fell trinity, and I have bested it. But that's because of my design priorities. You might have other design priorities.
However, what if I don't want to tackle ye olde dragon in combat? What if I don't want to bend his will with magic? What if I want to talk to him and convince him to join my side? Do you have a resolution mechanic for that? And if so, why isn't it as detailed and nuanced as combat and magic?
That's just one example.
Anyway, I recommend diving into the pool of Indie Game Design here. Start off by stating, one sentence, what your game is about. The premise, so to speak. This will help you focus your ideas about the game and whittle it down to only its necessary components.
For example, "Burning Wheel is a game about tough decisions and their consequences."
Every mechanic in the game revolves around the decisions/consequences paradigm -- from character creation, to conflict, to rewards.
You've got a sprawling tome. You got some neat themes in there. Stones, elements, Grief, Sorrow, etc. You want to make sure the game is about those neat themes and nothing more. That means that the die mechanics are about those themes, the resolution mechanics and the color.
good luck!
-Luke
On 6/30/2005 at 9:19pm, Andrew Morris wrote:
RE: Overwhelmed by Publishing
Avalloc wrote: I gave the sample a quick read, and unless I let a bit of writing sit for a while, my mind reads it as I intended instead of as I wrote it.
While it's no substitute for other eyes, if you absolutely need to proof your own work, there's a little trick you can use. Read it backwards. That is, read the last sentence first, then the second to last sentence, etc. This throws off your memory of the text somewhat, which forces your mind to pay more attention instead of skipping ahead to what you know is next. It's not perfect, and it's a real pain, but it's better than nothing.
On 7/1/2005 at 1:48pm, Avalloc wrote:
RE: Overwhelmed by Publishing
Hi Andrew,
I have heard of that before, thanks for reminding me of it. I'll have to remember to use it.
Thanks
Greg
On 7/7/2005 at 2:06pm, TheLe wrote:
RE: Overwhelmed by Publishing
Where's the pdf demo?
~The Le Games
On 7/7/2005 at 2:23pm, Avalloc wrote:
RE: Overwhelmed by Publishing
There isn't a demo of the game, only a sample of what is in the full book.
The sample is at:
http://www.lulu.com/items/volume_1/138000/138901/1/preview/Sample_of_Stonelinked.PDF