Topic: How it works - draft
Started by: Jack Aidley
Started on: 2/1/2006
Board: Site Discussion
On 2/1/2006 at 2:33pm, Jack Aidley wrote:
How it works - draft
Over here Ron said:
Ron Edwards wrote: Lisa, that would be wonderful. You're not the first person to propose it. I'll tell you what I told all of them, in hopes that this time, I'm heard - please draft such an introduction.
Obviously, I'm not Lisa but I thought I would give it my best shot anyway.
---
Welcome to the Forge
Hello and welcome, look around, pull up a chair and join the creator-owned roleplaying game movement. We sincerely hope you enjoy your stay but first a few words about how this place works:
The Forge is Different
The Forge is unlikely to work like any other forum you've visited before, here we expect you to be behave like an adult, use your real human name in discussion and do what your told to do by the moderator (Ron Edwards) without having to have it enforced by bans or locks. The Forge is also very, very clear about it's purpose: you are not here to learn about roleplaying games, kick around pie-in-the-sky ideas or have a friendly chat. No, you are here to create your own roleplaying game, publish it yourself and help other people do the same.
How it works
So, you're designing a game, huh? Why is that? I'm guessing 'cos you want to make better games than the ones you've played before? Right? So begin by telling us why that is - what was it about those games that you didn't like? What actually happened, in session, that didn't light your fire? Pop over to Actual Play and tell us about it. We want to know about the people involved not just what the characters did; tell us about the players. When you've done that and we've got to know you a bit, think about heading over to Indie Game Design and posting about your game design; remember though this forum isn't for vague notions, we're about creating and publishing your game. When you start a thread in Indie Game Design you're saying that you intend to publish your game (in whatever form; be it a webpage or a leather bond book, hand-written by monks and inlaid in gold).
Once you've got your design fleshed out you'll want to do some playtesting, head over to Connections to see if you can round up some folks to help, and then mosey on back to Actual Play to tell us about your playtest experience. Repeat this cycle: Actual Play->Indie Game Design->Actual Play as many times as you need to get the mechanics of your game down pat. Then it's time to sit down and write it up - we can't help you here - before visiting Publishing for advice on how to publish and market your game and advertise in Connections for others to do your artwork, editing, proof reading, layout and the like.
When you've got it published, and sitting freshly bound and on sale you may wish to do some promotion at conventions to get that buzz going, that's where the Conventions forum comes in. And, wow, that's your first game published and adored by thousands of screaming fans (well, maybe not) and you'll probably have new ideas stewing away, right? It's time to start again, beginning with the Actual Play that leads you to want your new thing, on to Indie Game Design, and so on.
Helpful links
Read the stickies at the top of each forum before you post to them, they'll tell you more about what that forum is for and the rules specific to that forum. Remember the golden rules round here: don't wake the dead by posting to old threads, and do what Ron tells you to do (but don't apologise to him, he gets all mardi about that).
Etiquette at The Forge (policy)
On Charitable Reading
Preparing for, and posting to, Actual Play
---
Any good? What's it missing? Will it help?
Forge Reference Links:
Topic 14
Topic 2
Topic 29
Topic 12
Topic 41
Topic 1604
Topic 13096
Topic 14182
On 2/1/2006 at 3:58pm, Nathan P. wrote:
Re: How it works - draft
Jack wrote:
Obviously, I'm not Lisa but I thought I would give it my best shot anyway.
Awesome. I'm gonna throw out some ideas too.
---
Welcome to the Forge
Hello and welcome, look around, pull up a chair and join the creator-owned roleplaying game movement. We sincerely hope you enjoy your stay but first a few words about how this place works:
Lame, lame quibble, but I would use the word "community" instead of "movement." But arguing that descends into semantics/personal agendas. Just throwing it out there.
The Forge is Different
The Forge is unlikely to work like any other forum you've visited before, here we expect you to be behave like an adult, use your real human name in discussion and do what your told to do by the moderator (Ron Edwards) without having to have it enforced by bans or locks. The Forge is also very, very clear about it's purpose: you are not here to learn about roleplaying games, kick around pie-in-the-sky ideas or have a friendly chat. No, you are here to create your own roleplaying game, publish it yourself and help other people do the same.
I think it's worth laying the ground rules out as clearly as possible, like in a bullet points under this paragraph.
*No thread necromancy. If you are interested in something you read in a thread that is not on the front page of a Forum [or the front three pages of Indie Game Design and Actual Play, IIRC], start a new thread linking to the old one. This allows the Forums to serve as Archives as well as venues for discussion.
*If a moderator or the starter of a thread declares a thread closed, that means that no-one can post to it. If you want to continue the conversation, start a new one.
*No images in your signiture. [I don't even know if you can do this in the new software, but I remember that being a thing at one point]
*Moderator decisions are final. Don't argue or thank the moderators. Just move along.
How it works
So, you're designing a game, huh? Why is that? I'm guessing 'cos you want to make better games than the ones you've played before? Right? So begin by telling us why that is - what was it about those games that you didn't like? What actually happened, in session, that didn't light your fire? Pop over to Actual Play and tell us about it. We want to know about the people involved not just what the characters did; tell us about the players. When you've done that and we've got to know you a bit, think about heading over to Indie Game Design and posting about your game design; remember though this forum isn't for vague notions, we're about creating and publishing your game. When you start a thread in Indie Game Design you're saying that you intend to publish your game (in whatever form; be it a webpage or a leather bond book, hand-written by monks and inlaid in gold).
Once you've got your design fleshed out you'll want to do some playtesting, head over to Connections to see if you can round up some folks to help, and then mosey on back to Actual Play to tell us about your playtest experience. Repeat this cycle: Actual Play->Indie Game Design->Actual Play as many times as you need to get the mechanics of your game down pat. Then it's time to sit down and write it up - we can't help you here - before visiting Publishing for advice on how to publish and market your game and advertise in Connections for others to do your artwork, editing, proof reading, layout and the like.
When you've got it published, and sitting freshly bound and on sale you may wish to do some promotion at conventions to get that buzz going, that's where the Conventions forum comes in. And, wow, that's your first game published and adored by thousands of screaming fans (well, maybe not) and you'll probably have new ideas stewing away, right? It's time to start again, beginning with the Actual Play that leads you to want your new thing, on to Indie Game Design, and so on.
Awesome. Again, in the name of blinding obviousness, a list of the forums and a one-sentence summary at the top might be good. Like, Actual Play - This is where you postabout your actual play, be it good, bad, a playtest, or to illustrate an idea.
Helpful links
Read the stickies at the top of each forum before you post to them, they'll tell you more about what that forum is for and the rules specific to that forum. Remember the golden rules round here: don't wake the dead by posting to old threads, and do what Ron tells you to do (but don't apologise to him, he gets all mardi about that).
Etiquette at The Forge (policy)
On Charitable Reading
Preparing for, and posting to, Actual Play
I would include a link to the Power 19 (I'll snag it later) to this list. Also, maybe a note that Ron Edwards is the content moderator, Clinton R. Nixon is the site admin, and Luke Crane is the Conventions moderator, with links to their profiles to make it as easy as possible to send a PM. I have seen people go "who do I ask about X" because they're new and just don't know who the moderators are yet.
Finally, a paragraph about the difference between the Forge Forums, the Independent Game Forums and the Locked Forums. They're part of the site too.
But yah, fantastic.
Forge Reference Links:
Topic 14
Topic 2
Topic 29
Topic 12
Topic 41
Topic 1604
Topic 13096
Topic 14182
On 2/1/2006 at 4:11pm, timfire wrote:
RE: Re: How it works - draft
Jack wrote:
... use your real human name in discussion...
Not to quibble, but that's never been an official rule. Really, it's only been over the last year or so, if I'm remembering right, where using your real name has been emphasized. When I joined the Forge in '03, alot of people were still using screen names, and it took me awhile to learn everyone's names. (Actually, a number of people who were using a screen name back then have since switched to their real name.)
Offering your real name is definitely helpful, but it's never been required.
On 2/1/2006 at 4:57pm, Troy_Costisick wrote:
RE: Re: How it works - draft
http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=1604.0
Peace,
-Troy
Forge Reference Links:
Topic 1604
On 2/1/2006 at 5:49pm, Bryan Hansel wrote:
RE: Re: How it works - draft
You might want to add something about the articles, and which one to read first. Something like this:
Recommended Reading
The Forge has several helpful articles for game designers. You may want to check these out while designing your game. This list is ordered to help you start with the basics and branch out from there:
Theory
GNS and Other Matters of Role-playing Theory
Simulationism: The Right to Dream
Gamism: Step On Up
Narrativism: Story Now
Applied Theory
Design
The Crunchy Bits #1: Introduction to the Grimy Nastiness
The Crunchy Bits #2: "Hell, there are no rules here - we're trying to accomplish something."
Publishing
How to Make Your Own Role-playing Game (Cheap)
etc....
I'm not sure what order to put these in, but you should get the idea if you choose to use it.
Thanks,
Bryan
On 2/1/2006 at 6:28pm, Andrew Morris wrote:
RE: Re: How it works - draft
Some ideas:
- "The Forge is a community, but one with a specific focus -- design and self-publishing of role-playing games. It is not a social outlet. Don't post simply to 'introduce' yourself. Instead, let your ideas speak for you."
- "The Forge does not support opinion polls."
- "Targeted, focused threads are easier to address and likelier to provide specific answers ("Does my mechanic X support my goal Y?" rather than "Here's my idea! It's awesome! Any comments?")."
- "Don't post unless you're sure where it should go. Relying on the moderators to sort it out and move it to the right place is rude. If you don't care enough about your ideas to figure out (or ask!) where they belong, why should anyone care enough about them to answer?"
- "Don't be afraid to send private messages to moderators if you're unsure about policy. They'd much rather handle it that way than have to moderate, move, or close an open thread."
- "Don't expect things to happen instantly. Just because your post has been unanswered for a day or two doesn't mean that people aren't thinking about it and considering how best to help you."
On 2/2/2006 at 3:32pm, Jack Aidley wrote:
RE: Re: How it works - draft
Hi all,
I'm afraid this post will mostly be saying why I didn't do those things. I think it's very important that any "how it works" document be as short as possible and repeat as little as possible from elsewhere, the first so that it actually gets read - I think if it is any longer than about a page it won't get read, at least not in it's entirety- the second so that people will read the other important threads without thinking "I know this already". Which is why most of the suggested additions above didn't go in.
I deliberately haven't included any links to the GNS stuff, or the structured design threads and the like because I don't think they fit with the intended focus of the post which is it explain how the site works, and the way in which it can be used rather than provide a starting point for game design.
A recommended reading post containing such links does seem a good idea but I think it should be a seperate entity. I know Ron was talking about creating such posts of links for the retired forums or, more accurately, asking for other people to create them (nudge).
Hi Nathan,
Lame, lame quibble, but I would use the word "community" instead of "movement." But arguing that descends into semantics/personal agendas. Just throwing it out there.
In my first draft of that paragraph I used the word 'community' but I changed it to 'movement' for two reasons: for first is because indie games are bigger than the Forge (increasingly so, I'd say), the second is because I wanted to emphasise that the Forge isn't there to provide a neat community to hang with but to get you out there making and publishing creator owned games.
I like the bullet point idea, I could summarise each section in bullet points after it.
Finally, a paragraph about the difference between the Forge Forums, the Independent Game Forums and the Locked Forums. They're part of the site too.
I thought about doing this, but decided not to. You'll also notice I didn't discuss Site Discussion, RPG Theory or GNS Discussions in there, I left all of these out because they're extraneous to the central focus of the post.
Hi Tim,
Yes, using real names isn't required, but it is expected. If anyone comes on with a handle one of the first things they can expect to be asked is whether they have a real name we can use. I don't expect putting the request in here, rather than in Ettiquette will make many people register under their real name, but it is worth encouraging it from the start I think.
Hi Andrew,
I agree these are important points, but I don't want to weigh the piece down with commandments, as I see it the Ettiquette (policy) is the place for those. This post needs to deal with the minimum level required, I think.
Thanks for the input guys. Ron? What do you think? Does this align with your ideas on how the site should work?