Previous threads.
http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=18977.0
http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=13410.0
http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=14311.0
http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=16956.0

Okay, lemme get crackin and give you the rundown.
Basic premise.  My players aren't buyin the mormon gunslinger premise just yet, but the rules system is working as fine bait. They requested Jedi, and I am going to deliver.  However, I am trying to frame this as close to traditional Dogs as I can in theme and emphasis.

The Setting.
After the events of Knights of the Old Republic, hundreds of Dark Jedi die and their spirits are cast across the galaxy.  These spirits are hanging about and pulling people to the Dark Side, Jedi and non-Jedi alike.  The Republic is in turmoil, as tensions rise and worlds seem ready to rip themselves apart.  Most disturbingly, even the respected order of the Jedi is becoming plagued by dissent and disorder.
Out of the Jedi Temple on Dantooine, the once Sith Lord Revan and Jedi Master Bastila have had a vision, showing them the spreading taint of the dark side.
After a quick council meeting, they begin to train a select few Jedi with the knowledge of the problem, and expertise and authority to deal with it by any means necessary.

This sets up the basic "demonic influence" as well as setting up the player characters as the ultimate judge of their actions, as well as giving the players a reason they can't just skip town, and places the impetus for action and authority on them.

The "Sin" Progression.
I am going with the idea of the previous thread, that it is not your actions that determine whether you fall to the dark side, but rather Intent and Control.
Based off of good 'ol Yoda's speech.  Fear leads to Anger, Anger leads to Hate, Hate leads to Suffering.  Those are the original sins.  They can be seen Prejudice, Injustice, Violence and Suffering leads to the Dark Side.
  Fear causes Prejudice, spreading the fear to a group of people or becoming paranoid and judging others by your fears before knowing them.  This leads to
  Anger, either against those you fear, or by those who are feared.  Anger causes Injustice, petty crimes and crimes against property. These acts of Injustice lead to
  Hate, hatred of those who get away with their crimes, and hatred of those who commit them. This hatred causes Violence, when victims go beyond petty acts to attacking people in retribution, or to enforce their own views.  Violence leads to
  Suffering, by victims of violence and those who do not wish to escalate to that level.  All are lessened by its presence, and in desperation, they might reach to the Dark Side.  (Possessed are normal people who reach to the Dark Side for power, due to Suffering)
  When a Jedi reaches to the Dark Side for power, he forms a Sith Order, naming apprentices if no Jedi are with him. (A sorcerer, creating possessed)
Dark Side Influence
Prejudice 1d10
Injustice 2d10
Violence 3d10
Dark Side 4d10
Sith Order 5d10

Example World Creation: Kashyyk - (I will be pushing this all the way, with the Jedi's initial actions determing whether it will be a few Possessed or a Dark Jedi they face, not as judgement, just that this world sits on a razored edge and to introduce the idea that there is very real, very bad stuff going down)
On Kashyyk we have

Zaalbar - New Chieftan of the Wookies after the death of his father, Freyyr.  Very traditionalist, and slightly xenophobic. Distrustful of outsiders, but with some respect for specific Jedi, including Jolee, though he has been getting increasingly distressed.

Jolee Bindo - Rececntly rejoined the Jedi Order as representative on Kashyyk. Still the same crotchety old man who cares little for "light" or "dark" sides of the force from a philosiphical standpoint, and is more concerned with practicality.  Currently trying to convince Zaalbar to increase trade with the Republic and to promote free exchange of ideas.  Woorwil is starting to learn more from him, and listening to his ideas about the culture of offworlders and the exchange of ideas.  His greatest ally is his apprentice, Kelya, a female wookie he found to be force sensitive, and is training in the Jedi way. 

Woorwil - A younger wookie just prior to coming of age, Woorwil had found that Rorworr, a wookie he idolized as a hero to his people, was dealing with slavers.  He is somewhat lost as of now, but the actions of the Jedi Revan in discovering the truth have given him a great deal of respect for Jedi, but he is torn by his lifelong mentor, Jaarak's disdain for offworlders.

Jaarak - An old wookie, he is the one who originally found out Rorworr, and was ready to stand trial for murder to uphold the ideal that Rorworr represented.  Stopped from this by the Jedi Revan, he is still an advocate of the traditional ways, and is trying to steer Woorwil away from outsiders.

Matton - Now a trader, he did not try and fight the Wookies taking their village back, and as he was known to be a fellow slave to the laws of outsiders, he has been allowed as the Republics official Trade Ambassador to Kashyyk.  This is little more than a glorified title however, as the wookies still do not have a great deal of trade with offworlders, but he is respected by most wookies, especially the more proggressive ones. His responsibilities amount mainly to running his small general store, and to keeping up the few, frequently used landing ports for incoming starships.

Freyakk - A wookie that has recently come of age, and very anti-offworld orientented. He even disturbs Zaalbar at times with his intensity.  He leads a tribal group of like minded youths.
(this one is a madeup addition)

Fear
  Zaalbar fears that he is not yet worthy to be Cheiftan, clinging to the traditions of the past to guide him. He also fears being seen as a tool of the Jedi.
  Matton fears that he will lose his favored status if the Wookies get overly angered by Jolee's new ideas and throw the offworlders out.  He has not forgotten the Wookie's rage in their assault on Czerka corp.
 
Prejudice
  Zaalbar does not consider the problems of offworlders worth attention. Jolee's advice is not given due consideration either, due to this prejudice. 
  Woorwil is being influenced by the prejudices of those around him, rather than forming his own opinions. 

Anger
  Jolee is getting angry, as he is not being taken seriously, or given due respect.
  Freyaak is angry by Mattons attempts at trade with members of his tribal group.
 
Injustice
  Freyaak and his group have vandalized Matton's store, and a few of the space ports.
  Zaalbar writes it off as youthful vigor with no evidence of who it could be. 
   
Hate
  Freyaak hates the offworlder Matton, for not having the honor to fight against the vandalism that his group performed, as well as the Jolee and his apprentice, for the Jedi would defend Matton if he attacked him, and they could not defeat the Jedi.
  Matton hates Freyaak, as he knows the group is responsible.

The Dark Jedi want Jolee to become fedup with the wookies, and give up and retreat back to the shadowlands.

If the Jedi do not come, then Jolee would leave, allowing Freyaak to assault Matton, escalating into a war between the wookies between those of the new ways and those of the old.  This promotes a proper state of suffering, which will eventually cause one side or the other to reach out for the power of the dark side.
 
 
 

Okay, so there is the idea of how those basics work.

Other things, Dark Jedi are just like demons in that you can only affect them with ceremony.  But you don't specifically fight them, you fight the influence of the dark side. And they don't have any ability other than to provide power to those who will take it, and to influence people's emotions.

So if someone was possessed, you would use ceremony to attempt to make them come to their senses.

I need some ideas for ceremony.
I like some of the imagery of this quotes from the movies, but am a bit stumped otherwise.

So yeah, advice on ceremony?  How can I sharpen up the sin progression?  Any advice on Kashyyk?

Oh yeah, as for force powers, going kind of general. If you have the "I am a Jedi" or similar trait, you can use the force in raises, and bring into play any equivalent traits.
If you want to reach out to the darkside, it would be much the same as a dog using sorcery.  Effects determined by the player.  You can have traits related to the dark side, or individual powers, either Force Lightning 1d8 or The force lends weight to my words 2d6 or what have you.
"Your anger will not serve you here"

I am running things differently in our Banthas game, but that's because we're focusing very closely on the paradox that Jedi live in, that they must simultaneously care about everyone, and noone.

If that's not your focus, then play on.

Yeah, I'm going more traditional, as you can see, though your game certainly seems interesting.

Still, any advice within the framework I put up would be nice. :D

One thing that I might have missed in your description that I'm interested in is where are you putting Light Sabers in the progression of escalation?

I assume they are d10? How many d4's did you put with them to represent them as a complicated solution? 1? 2? None?

As for ceremonies I'm not sure Jedi work as well with ceremony as the faithful. It's the one place where Bantha's may just be better without. Most Jedi Ceremony doesn't take place during combat or argument. Jedi ceremony is more done between scenes or in passive scenes.

I'd just make everyone take a relationship with the force. Then allow characters that have fallen to the dark side to take a relationship with the dark side of the force as a separate entity. This would give dark side characters the "quick route to power" that soooooo many Jedi systems don't seem to capture very well.

I'm really interested in actual play examples once you have them.

Yeah, I am going pretty loose as traditional dogs for the Force.  You could have a relationship with the force, the dark side of the force, traits related such as I am a master of the Force, or I touched the dark side or what have you.  That will be pretty up in the air, but seperate dark side traits are still a quick route to power.

Lightsabers will be as normal equipment, with the d4 for guns. Big, excellent or crap stuff.

Most lightsabers are 2d6 1d4 as they are excellent.  Mass or non-handmade lightsabers would be 1d6 1d4 (though there are very few of those in this setting, the option is there)
Shoddy lightsaber would be 2d4.
Maul's would be 2d8 1d4 as it is big and excellent.

As a tribute to the game (KOTOR), if you use a short lightsaber in your offhand, it does not have the 1d4 dice. 
Thus, 2 regular sabers (if pulled and used in the same raise) would be 4d6 + 2d4 but if one was short it would be 4d6 + 1d4 (less risk of hacking your own arm off)

I think they would not be ceremonies as normal for dogs, but just standard ways of fighting the influence of the dark side.  I am leaning towards

Inner Peace, meditation type thing d4
Calls against emotion d6
Maybe, the Dark Side cannot win or something of the effect d8?

I think Lagnath means: How much fallout do you have lightsabers generate? If I stab you with a lightsaber and you Take the Blow with four dice, do you roll 4d10 fallout or 4d8 fallout?

Personally, I don't think lightsabers should get an extra d4 like guns do. I just don't think it maps well. Guns get an extra d4 because if someone pulls out a gun, something bad is going to happen. I don't think that's the case with lightsabers.

You should add an option to the fallout lists of "Lose an appendage" though for any fight involving lightsabers.

As for ceremony, one of the other Bantha threads had some great advice about things like Luke closing his eyes before blowing up the Death Star and saying things like "Your feelings betray you" being ceremony.

Depending on the tone of your game, I recommend a Bad Feeling die. You put a d12 out there in the middle of the table at the beginning of every planet. The first player to use the phrase "I have a bad feeling about this" as their raise or see gets to roll the d12 into their hand.

> Personally, I don't think lightsabers should get an extra d4 like guns do. I just don't think it maps well. Guns get an extra d4 because if someone pulls out a gun, something bad is going to happen. I don't think that's the case with lightsabers. <

Agreed.  What's the very first description of them?  'Not as clumsy or random as a blaster.'

Andrew

Er, and what's the first time we see a lightsaber used?  Some guy's arm gets lopped off.

Bad things that happen when lightsabers get pulled:

• Obi-Wan abandons Luke
• Luke sees himself in Darth Vader's mask
• Luke loses a hand
• Dozens of alien mooks die and Boba Fett gets Sarlacced
• Anakin's breathing machinery is destroyed

Somebody's taking serious Fallout in every one of those examples.

d10 fallout, all the way.  Very few weapons in star wars are as innately lethal as the lightsabers.  And if a weapon would get d12 fallout, it would be them.  Not alot of lightsaber injuries, mainly deaths.  But I digress, as that would be venturing into more realistic territory.

As for 1d4, the 1d4 from guns is not because guns are clumsy or random.  In the hands of a well trained soldier, a gun is not clumsy or random at all. (That quote shows the Jedi's lack of respect for blasters, but it is heavily biased, and not all agree with it)
The 1d4 is because when you pull out a gun, bad things will happen.  It will likely affect you, whether it is by someone else whipping the gun out, remorse from gunning a kid down or what have you.  
The same thing happens with a lightsaber.  Whipping out the lightstick means that your words have failed and it is now the time to do or die, kill or be killed.  At this point, you've escalated beyond the safe point, and whatever does happen, there will be consequences.
The lack of the extra d4 for the short lightsaber is just to give the flavor for the short saber that the game has, in case one of the players would like to use it as they may have in the game.

Brendan wrote:
Er, and what's the first time we see a lightsaber used?  Some guy's arm gets lopped off.

Bad things that happen when lightsabers get pulled:

• Obi-Wan abandons Luke
• Luke sees himself in Darth Vader's mask
• Luke loses a hand
• Dozens of alien mooks die and Boba Fett gets Sarlacced
• Anakin's breathing machinery is destroyed

Somebody's taking serious Fallout in every one of those examples.