GENCON 2007 - FIRST POST

I'm getting started early this year for a couple of reasons. The first is to make sure we hit the early-bird deadline for signup, which is February 15, and the second concerns some crucial reorganizations that you guys need to know about as soon as possible.

Remember the Forge vision thread? The reorganizations are all about that.

1. The current primary sponsors, that is, the companies that are purchasing the booth up-front, include Adept Press, Indie Press Revolution, CRN Games, and a couple others to be negotiated and/or disclosed later. This arrangement is no different from past years. Like last year, IPR will be handling all the stock and transactions and general money logistics.

2. Newcomers who'd like to join the booth pay the sponsors $100 buy-in fee + badge. This is the usual rule, no different from past years either. If you were new last year, you may buy in at $200 + badge, which again is just the same as before. A very few folks who are basically "booth staff" are welcome for the badge fee only as well, that is, the famous booth ninjas (who forevermore shall wear the term "monkey" no longer).

3. Now for the new thing: there is no one else. No other buy-ins are permitted. Companies with a longer history of participation at the booth, whose owners want to participate at GenCon, this is the post which says, "It's time to leave the nest." There are a couple of exceptions based on a specific service or for a gray-area of 2005 participation, but not many (ask privately if you want).

But! This isn't kicking you out of the nest entirely. All IPR titles will be sold at the booth, in addition to games from the sponsors and buy-in companies. And if you have been a long-term participant at the booth and aren't carried by IPR, and if you're at GenCon in any capacity, the booth will have your game on the rack too for no charge beyond IPR's commission, if you desire. (Note: this is different from previous years in which doing this cost you $100.)

Now for some discussion of alternatives and sibling-activities at GenCon which are available too.

1. Luke is setting up his own booth for Burning Empires, and as I understand it, he is considering a similar, limited buy-in model for veterans of the Forge booth. He and I consider Burning Empires to be the current star example of graduating from the Forge into the full vision of its creator's desire, and as such, the two booths will be associated and mutually supportive. Depending on how Luke wants to handle his finances and the booth, some of the Forge veterans may want to pay attention to what he posts here over the next few days.

2. There's always setting up a booth of your own, in whatever financial arrangement, logistics, and aesthetic vision you like (I mean, obviously; it's not like you need my permission). A first-time 10x10 booth is only $700 or so; a small group of established publishers can make a pretty good go of that. I can think of a round dozen of you guys who probably will do far better in this situation than at the Forge booth. More on exhibitor-hall placement in a minute.

3. As many of you know, Paul Czege is organizing his "Hobby of Equals" or "Ashcan Front" activity, as expressed in:
http://www.story-games.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=1859&page=1#Item_15
http://www.story-games.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=1904#Item_9
http://www.story-games.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=1912&page=1#Item_1
I think it's one of the best ideas I've ever seen for GenCon; some of the established publishers who can count on steady sales from IPR or elsewhere at GenCon might do best to embrace their punky roots and have maximum fun participating here instead.

Although new booths (#1-3 in this list) don't have any points for getting their placement of choice in the hall, I have plenty. I will name these booths as my desired neighbors, and as long as their applications say "Adept Press" as first-choice neighbor, the chances are high that we'll be in close proximity.

4. The Games on Demand event ran pretty well as a successful pilot last year, I think. This year, I have some good ideas for pumping people directly from the Forge booth to Games on Demand, and vice versa (fill in "Luke's booth" here too, relative to Games on Demand). So my hope is that being more active there rather than at the Forge booth will pay off well for people whose games have been out for two to four years.

Starting up

I'll open signups later - much later, in fact. In the past, we've done far better to have signups during May, rather than earlier, and I'll stick with that experience this year too. But I figure a lot of you who might have planned to participate at the Forge booth needed to know about the changes right away, in order to make plans.

Anyway, that's that. Questions, concerns, comments?

Best, Ron
edited to fix the link

Could you clarify the place (if any) that publishers who are carried by IPR but not bought into the Forge booth (what I'm going to call, herein, "sibling publishers") should have, as regards the booth?

Certainly there are activities that I think of as "part of the GenCon experience" (e.g. demoing my game) which consume limited resources (e.g. Forge-booth table-space) and though I'm still adapting to the idea emotionally I am intellectually in favor of assuring those limited privileges foremost for precisely the people who the Forge can help the most.  So I hope this doesn't come across with any sense of entitlement, because that's not where I'm at.

That having been said, as I continue planning to "spread my wings" it would help a lot to know every detail possible about the new situation.  Will sibling-publishers be demoing their wares at the booth?  If not, will anybody else be available to demo those wares upon customer request?  Would it be appropriate for them to demo games for companies that are bought into the booth ('cuz helping is fun!)?

Hrm.  Y'know, I genuinely thought there was more to the booth than that.  I mean, yeah, there's chairs and cash registers and all that, but those things are clear in terms of where they go.  Less ambiguity than I thought when I started posting.  If you already have answers to those questions, I'd love to hear them.  If the answers are something that are still being worked upon then that's great too.  Whenever they're figured out will be plenty of time.

It's a very exciting change!  I'm looking forward to seeing how it develops!

Hi Ron,

I'm not clear on the term "$100 buy-in fee + badge". Does that mean as a first year designer, I spend $100 and get a badge in that price, the cost is $100 plus whatever Gen Con reveals badge costs are this year, or $100 and I need to buy a badge separate from the booth? Thanks.

Hello!

Hey Tony, good questions. I do have a very clear framework for the answer, and it's pretty much based on how things have run in the past. I'll use you as an example.

As you are a client of IPR, the IPR guys will bring copies of Capes, rack them, sell them as customers bring them to the register, and monitor stock and the progress of sales. At the end of con, you get a check, and the remaining stock goes home with them. Easy enough.

But how about you? Well, you're welcome to be at the booth as a participant in others' demos and generally to be a nice guy if you want to. Capes will not be demonstrated there - that's specifically what the booth fee is buying, just as in past years except for 2002. So you and others can't demo Capes at those tables.

I hope the alternate routes I talked about - whether, say, a booth that you and others organize together with demo-space, or Games on Demand, or similar - will fill in that gap.

Let me know if I missed anything in what you asked.

Clyde! Yay, I was hoping to see you in this thread. Here's how it's worked in past years and how it will work this time. I will use you as an example and assume that you'll have a game ready to go in August. (If, in May, it doesn't look likely, then I suggest Paul's booth, but for now, let's assume.)  What you'll do is wait until the designated sign-up time, then pay me, by check, $160. That's $100 for reimbursing booth cost to the primary sponsors, and $60 for the exhibitor badge (I will double-check on the exact amount; a couple of years ago, they raised the price and I was stupid enough not to double-check, thus ended up eating the difference on every single badge).

The important thing for first-timers and for all buy-ins, in fact - do not sign up for GenCon in any other way. Don't register. Don't get a badge. Don't sign up. Don't do anything except sign up through me and let me get your badge through the normal within-exhibitor, within-booth mechanisms. If you do that (there're always a couple of people who do), it's a major pain in my ass and in the GenCon staff's ass.

Best, Ron

Regarding The Ashcan Front...

For this year's GenCon Indy, I and Matt Snyder are organizing a booth separate from The Forge booth. It will be a booth focused entirely on selling ashcans (as per the recipe laid out in the threads Ron linked to above). Expect additional details in February. Right now I'm maxed on several projects, including planning a trip.

Paul

Sounds awesome.  I'd also like to add, "Let's find out the details on registering gaming events into the GenCon catalog".

For those not appearing at the Official Forge Booth: Without booth demoing, the single best way to promo your game is to run events of it, scheduled events, and get a tablefull of folks playing your game. Some will have heard of your game, many will be there because they had blank generic tickets and their first choice canceled, and your event description appealed to them.  I couldn't find this process at-a-glance, but for some of you putting up your own booth, this is a good way to score some sales. I can personally attest to the regularity of 4-6 people hitting the Forge Booth right after some game session they just played for 3.5 hours, specifically looking for Your Game.

Again, I couldn't easily find this process at the GenCon page at a glance, but if someone locates it (especially in regards to event registration deadlines, where to send info, etc), please post links here.

-Andy

Heya Ron,

I have a question.  The "one gamer per new participant" rule that Luke instituted  last year, will that be in effect again this year?  It will make a difference in the number of copies of certain games that I order.  Thanks! :)

Peace,

-Troy

Hello,

One point to reinforce about Andy's advice: it's best suited for people who do not have a game at the Forge booth. I know you said that, Andy, but I betcha that's the crucial qualifier people will miss. Running demo games and working the booth is not recommended.

As for the importance of GenCon event play itself, I'm hoping to beef up that connection Andy mentioned as much as possible via Games on Demand, especially since it will benefit games that are present on the rack at the Forge booth, but are not otherwise promoted. If you're in that position and want to schedule your own event, then go for it, obviously.

It's conceivable that we might make a schedule of all such play and post it at the booth each day, but that's not something I want to organize and run around refining - someone else will have to take point about that.

Here's another point about that, though ... I and the other primary sponsors of the Forge booth will not be allotting any organizational effort to GenCon scheduled events. It splits the effort too much. So if you're interested in that angle, you'll have to find out all the deadlines and logistics yourself, at the GenCon site.

Troy, I have a mixed response to the first-time participant's limit to one game that we tried out last year. On the one hand, it certainly simplified things, and it also probably benefited most of the new participants as they could concentrate on one thing, but more importantly because others only had to learn one about one thing per person. A new face, a name, a game, and a set of rules are relatively easy to process; if you have to remember multiple game names and sets of rules per face and name, it gets wacky. Considering a number of newcomers at the 2005 booth, several brought 2-4 games and only one per company was ever recognized or demoed at the booth anyway.

However, the main concern last year was losing the newer people in a sea of veterans. There won't be any long-term veterans this year aside from the booth sponsors. So part of the problem that policy was designed to solve has been eliminated in the first place.

I'll talk it over with the other primary folks and see what we all think. My inclination is to lift the limitation, but perhaps another one might be called for, or people might raise issues that I haven't considered.

Best, Ron

Andy wrote:
Again, I couldn't easily find this process at the GenCon page at a glance, but if someone locates it (especially in regards to event registration deadlines, where to send info, etc), please post links here.

I will be getting my own  booth this year and I am considering if I can and should take on additional partners. I know there's a lot of people cut adrift by the recent changes, so I'm willing to discuss creating a new home for us flotsam. Right now, I'd like to keep the discussion private. So if you're interested in sharing a booth with me, Burning Wheel and Burning Empires at Gencon, please PM or email me.

thanks!
-Luke

Is this only open to IPR clients?

Hi Justin,

I'm not totally sure what you're asking, but will assume you're talking about buying into the booth at either $100 or $200 plus badge fee.

The answer is, absolutely not. I'm not sure where that idea comes from; the booth and its buy-in existed long before IPR did. Any independent publisher can buy into the booth - IPR affiliations, Forge participation, et cetera, don't mean a thing. The only new constraint is past participation, as described above.

Please let me know if that answered your question. It might be that there's a bigger question underlying it, or maybe I missed what you were asking.

Best, Ron

Not certain how many will remember us from last year, but we (Full Void Studios) were parked squarely behind the Forge booth in the GenCon Indy expo hall.

This year we're exploring options, since registration-time always seems to hit us by surprise, and looking for a few details I didn't see covered here already.

Can a company with multiple partners each buy-in for  the company/product buy-in for $100/$200 and each person sharing time in the booth pay the additional $60 or does each person buy-in for the $160/260 rate and share time in the booth demoing games?

While we only have one product (racing towards the final press copy still) we do have prints and shirts as well.  Are these type of auxiliary products welcome in the booth?

Do all badges read "the Forge" or do these still include the individual's company name?  Or are both included somehow?

Will the booth be allowing space for banners/signage on the walls this year (or has it already done so in the past)?

Thanks,

Hi Scott!

Can a company with multiple partners each buy-in for  the company/product buy-in for $100/$200 and each person sharing time in the booth pay the additional $60 or does each person buy-in for the $160/260 rate and share time in the booth demoing games?

While we only have one product (racing towards the final press copy still) we do have prints and shirts as well.  Are these type of auxiliary products welcome in the booth?

Do all badges read "the Forge" or do these still include the individual's company name?  Or are both included somehow?

Will the booth be allowing space for banners/signage on the walls this year (or has it already done so in the past)?

Thanks for the information!

Personally, I loved the constant energy and buzz of the Forge booth last year.  Just having to decide now between an expensive, solitary booth filled with eye-candy or an ultra-productive, shared booth experience with a minimalist approach...

Forgot about asking this in the message above - does the Forge/Adept Press booth do any shared advertising or promotions?

That completely answered my question, Ron. Thanks!
I was concerned that, because IPR would be handling the stock for the booth as well as acting as sponsor, that only IPR clients would be welcome. Not sure yet whether I'll be using IPR or Key20, or if either will want me, since we go into layout within the next week or two.

Hi Ron,

Last year before I got swallowed by India, I asked you:

"I make wet-form leather masks that I've been told are pretty darn good. I was wondering - would I be able to sell these as well - by putting up a single display wall or section that would make for interesting decoration and draw, as well as being sold as product?"

At the time, you and Luke were interested, but it wasn't doable because there was too much going on. Any feeling on this for this year? I figured I'd ask now because I'd need time to ramp up production for this summer.

Cheers,

~Mo

The one question I have and didn't divine the answer from the posts thus far is this: If you are not an IPR client as of yet and buy into booth space to demo and sell your game, and IPR handles the actual ring ups, how do financials and product logistics work? Does IPR takes their commission for handling the sales transactions and you bring the product for them to sell at the show and lug the remaining stock home with you?

I'm new, never been to the forge booth (because I've only been to origins and GTS) but my understanding is that the forge booth has a big demo space where you sit and handle your game (and whatever else) while there is a section that handles sales transactions for the product (all in the same booth) Is this how it works or has someone hit me with a stupid stick?

Hi Mo, hi Travis,

Let's see ...

Mo, I'm regretfully inclined to say not. But ... um, h'mmm. What would you think of displaying only one mask at a time? This is also clearly something that needs an "all primary sponsors" check too.

Travis, it works along these lines.

1. Most of the booth space is not enclosed and has many small tables set up with chairs. About a quarter, maybe a little more of the 20' x 20' space will be retail space, with racks, cash register, and associated stuff.

2. In the demo space, people will run short demonstrations of their games, more like the CCG companies do - play a hand or two until you grasp the basics, then fold up shop and ask you to buy it, rather than playing out a full game. It is expected from everyone at the booth that they play in one another's demos and learn each other's games, so that by the last couple of days, you can probably show the basics for a few other games besides your own.

3. In general, the booth should have an atmosphere of welcome. A person arriving should not be barraged with pitches, but rather should be asked what sort of games they like and directed toward the titles they might enjoy most, or a person who might be best suited to talk further. On the other hand, it is a sales space and should not become merely a hang-out zone either.

4. The primary sponsors pay for the booth up-front. If we get the early price, it costs $2400, split among us. The buy-in people's $100 and $200 fees are then split among them to defray that cost. Everyone gets an exhibitor badge.

5. All transactions are handled at the cash register. Each company gets all the money for its books sold, less IPR's commission. (Brennan might weigh in regarding the percentages for this year, for IPR clients and non-clients.)

6. A given person is asked to participate at the booth for half a day, each day of the con. Also, everyone is required to be at the booth before the exhibit hall opens to the public each day, and at the end of the exhibit hours each day; setup and shutdown require a lot of help and often important announcements or hassles get handled then.

7. It's important to arrive early, specifically the day before the con starts, to help with setup and to start getting acquainted with one another and with the games. There's also a party for the Diana Jones Award each year that is often well-attended by Forge booth folks, but some people like to relax the night before or work on their demos together instead. Typically people join up for lunch and dinner a lot, and one great tradition has begun in which people go to a certain hotel lobby during the evenings for more free-for-all gaming and discussions.

How's that for an overview? Each numbered item includes lots of details I've left out, but that's pretty much the big picture.

Best, Ron

Ron wrote: Mo, I'm regretfully inclined to say not. But ... um, h'mmm. What would you think of displaying only one mask at a time? This is also clearly something that needs an "all primary sponsors" check too.

Mo: the only concern I would have is display space for these. Everyone always wants to put up posters and banners and we had very little room for them last year. Also, some t-shirts we had for sale did very poorly because they were hard to see.

Regarding posters in general, I hope to have some display area this year, and we will be trying to arrange the "store" space to be a bit better for the traffic patterns of browswers and those waiting to buy without cutting into demo space. This will get hashed out as time gets closer, but everyone who wants to bring a poster will need to let me know, and there will be size restrictions.

I'll post about percentages in a little bit.

I'm gonna be a bastard about posters. My current thinking is primary sponsors only.

Best, Ron

Hey thanks, that hashes it out very clearly and sound slike I've always imagined and heard about. Sounds great.

As far as banners are concerned, as you stated it's an enclosed 20X20 booth, presumably outlined with 3" stanchion skirt holders (black curtain border) and opened on a couple sides, right? What about having a set standard of 2' x 3" vinyl banners for each participant all printed by the same people for uniformity and spaced evently around the outside of the skirt wall? Lance Willians at Avalon Innovations does amazing vinyl banners for dirt cheap (my last 2'X3' cost like $6 or something) Something to think about, assuming the primary sponsors are placing their banners in the retail area and on the back of the stock area wall and not utilizing this area already.

The area is completely open except for the back wall, so no skirt. I'll back Ron on restricting posters to primary sponsors only.

Brennan wrote:
The area is completely open except for the back wall, so no skirt. I'll back Ron on restricting posters to primary sponsors only.

Heya,

1. Most of the booth space is not enclosed and has many small tables set up with chairs. About a quarter, maybe a little more of the 20' x 20' space will be retail space, with racks, cash register, and associated stuff.....The primary sponsors pay for the booth up-front. If we get the early price, it costs $2400, split among us. The buy-in people's $100 and $200 fees are then split among them to defray that cost. Everyone gets an exhibitor badge.

Hi Troy,

It's four booth spaces: 20' by 20'. Since it's all Forge/IPR this year, the demo space will be bigger than last year and the retail space will be more navigable, maybe even with an exit point (plenty of time for figuring that out; no suggestions at this time please).

Best, Ron

Clinton wrote:

Brennan wrote:

I guarantee you guys - especially you new guys - that having your game there, in the midst of the frenzy of activity, will sell it better than any poster will.

Oh I don't dispute that at all, and I;m sure that the mere presence of the people at the booth which is enormous and constant will do more to pull people in than banners will. I will say however that nicely made vinyl banners kick ass over any poster and always look nice and crisp. I would never hang a magazine or movie grade poster as booth dressing, it's so tackie... Anyways. I'll plan to come light then :)

Hiya,

Numerous busy bees have rightly pointed out that I typed the wrong value for the four-booth space. It's $5335 An error of the fingers, this time.

Best, Ron

and I mistyped it again! Jeez. Now it's right. - RE

Ron, new question. If we sign up strictly through you for our badges, how will we sign up for things like True Dungeon?

JustinB wrote:
Ron, new question. If we sign up strictly through you for our badges, how will we sign up for things like True Dungeon?

Hi there,

James is right on all counts. However, especially when wearing my official booth-buyer hat, I'll add this: for those who sign up with the Forge booth, this convention is a working event. If you want to "go to GenCon" in the usual sense of the word of enjoying its entertainments, then you're a lot better off getting an attendance badge and simply visiting the Forge booth when you like, rather than exhibiting there.

That's a fairly extreme view, I know, and as I posted above, the obligation at the Forge booth is half a day per day, not the whole time. So there's room for entertainment too. But I'm posting here to say that when and if those two things come into conflict, your role at the con as exhibitor takes first place. That's part of the picture.

Best, Ron

Ron, speaking in as shark-like terms as I can, what do we get for our $100+badges buy-in?  We get no poster space; what will be going up against that back "wall"?  How will what's going up there, and what's going into the convention program, get customers at the booth for us?  Or is the thinking that enough people show up for Sorcerer, The Shadow of Yesterday, and The Princes Kingdom (but not Burning Wheel/Empires, Capes, Dogs in the Vineyard, My Life with Master, etc) that certainly the unadvertised publishers can snap up some sales?  How much of what we get for the buy-in is, "You don't have to worry about the details at your first (or second) GenCon?"

Joshua,

Let me answer your question, as it's a good one for a new person at the booth.

The booth is advertising enough. The Forge booth is now a premier destination at GenCon: buyers come directly to it, knowing it is where they can get the newest independent games. (This usually includes a good number of game designers and company owners, which, I should say, buy a good many games.) The booth is also an activity hub: you have never seen demos like at the Forge booth. At any moment, 3-8 demos will be happening, with 3-4 people each: this is 9 to 32 people cramming into a booth and being really excited! When you walk by, you notice this, and you cannot notice posters, as they are obscured by people playing games.

The majority of returning customers (and they are a large part) come to see what they don't have. People will come to the booth, look through the games, pick up everything they don't have that they can afford, and buy them. As a first-year publisher, your job is to make your game look grabby, unusual, and awesome. Jason Morningstar did this last year, and he should comment. The Shab-al-Hiri Roach was visually arresting; it has a grabby element in that all the nerd-dom can connect to its Lovecraftian elements, even if that is super-tangential; and it was also pretty. It sold like 15 million copies. John Harper and Agon also did this. The game was relatively unknown before GenCon, but the 7 x 9 inch format, the beautiful cover, and the pitch of Grecian gods and combat sold the hell out of it.

Also, for $100, you get Ron Edwards, me, and a bunch of others telling people about your game all day. Of course, the fact of the matter is that you have to make us love it, too. But if you sell one of us, you sell to dozens of people. You, of course, have a shoe-in: I already love Full Light, Full Steam.

As someone who saw the booth last year but was not a participant (I was over with key20) I can say I was very, very impressed and very eager to be part of this this year. I'm now a big believer in the booth.

Hey, thanks Clinton.  I tried really hard to be prepared for the booth and I think that effort was rewarded.  I had a fairly tight demo that just got tighter after each run, I had stuff to give away, I had laminated comic strips for God's sake.  I demo'd it for booth people the night before. I demo'd it for a superhero and a clown.  I also seriously bought into the whole mutualism thing and talked up, steered people to, and demo'd other games.  I heard others do the same for me and it was reassuring and good.  The $100 + badge was an insanely good investment, predicated on the accurate assumption that I would bust my own ass. 

Hey Joshua,

(but not Burning Wheel/Empires, Capes, Dogs in the Vineyard, My Life with Master, etc)

My Life with Master will be for sale at The Forge booth, by virtue of this qualification from Ron in the very first post on this thread:

"And if you have been a long-term participant at the booth and aren't carried by IPR, and if you're at GenCon in any capacity, the booth will have your game on the rack too for no charge beyond IPR's commission, if you desire."

Paul

Josh, I can't stress enough that people come to GenCon just to see what's at the Forge Booth. My first year there, with no publicity at all and a tiny, black and white, shrinkwrapped game with totally kooky mechanics called "Under the Bed: The Child Endangering" I sold dozens of copies. People came there because either they knew there was going to be good stuff, or they were passing by and wanted to know what all the excitement was about. Cuz there was a lot of it.

Shock: with its alarming cover, more palatable subject matter, and hefty dose of chatter did substantially better. If people come looking for those, they'll see your games, too. I'm selling games because of Vincent, Paul, and Ron. You can sell games because of Vincent, Paul, Ron, John, Tim, and me. If you go elsewhere, you can't.

Thanks for the responses, guys.

So it will be "The Forge Booth," labeled as such in the program and/or with signage?  Or is it just that the masses of people playing demos is what identifies the Forge Booth?

In programs etc. it will be identified as "Adept Press/other primary sponser/other primary sponser/other primary sponser", but you're not going to see that anyhere except on hall maps and the like.

There is a banner with the forge logo that gets run up high for visibility, but that's it.

There is no other advertising, promotion, signage, etc. that draws attention to the forge booth.  Advertising at Gencon is stupid expensive, and pointless.  There is a lot of grassroots and word-of-mouth awareness, and there are people who come to Gencon because the booth is there.  And there is a lot of traffic.  And the traffic sees all the excitment and gaming and wants in. 

Gamers want to have fun.  The forge booth is concentrated fun.  The booth works.

James

The booth absolutely, positively, does work ... and at more than one function.

Yes, if you go you will have fun.

Yes, if you go and do what other people are doing (chat up customers, run demoes, sell product) then you will probably pay for your convention.  A lot of people do.

But the biggest thing, to my mind, is that if you go and watch what's happening, and study how the way things are done translates into results, you will learn a tremendous amount about the challenges and opportunities of running a booth.  It is a place of learning.

I could sell the argument "If you don't understand from the description of the booth's energy and how it runs demoes why you have to go be part of it ... then you clearly have to go be part of it, in order to learn to see that connection."  It would be annoyingly self-referential, but not without a grain of truth.

Ron wrote:
And if you have been a long-term participant at the booth and aren't carried by IPR, and if you're at GenCon in any capacity, the booth will have your game on the rack too for no charge beyond IPR's commission, if you desire. (Note: this is different from previous years in which doing this cost you $100.)

Just get in touch with me by email, Matt, probably in a couple of months.

As far as the con goes, yes, that's exactly right. You bring the books to the booth (we'll set a time, it can't be any ol' time whenever), and you pick up the money and the remaining books at the end of the con. I might have to be a bastard about some aspects of that, in that leftover inventory can't be anyone's resonsibility but the publisher's.

To repeat an earlier point, publishers in this situation are strongly advised to spend time at the Games on Demand event. We know people came from there last year looking for books to buy, and some ideas are under way for making that connection stronger in both directions.

Best, Ron

Now I'm not going to Gencon (no way can I afford the plane tickets), but I'd like to be a part of it. How can I get Dead of Night demoed and sold at Gencon, without actually being there and doing it myself?

Dead of Night is already sold by IPR, will it be there on sale by them anyway?

Except we know it's demos that sell books, so how can I get Dead of Night demoed at the Forge Booth/Gencon?

Hi Andrew,

Dead of Night will definitely be on the rack at the booth.

As for demos, well, that's a problem. In the past, we have accepted games without authors for a $100 buy-in and run demos for them. The fact is, it doesn't work that well. Bluntly, I'm just about the only person who honors the promise to demo such games, which ends up taking away disproportionately from promoting my stuff; this is compounded by the fact that I spend a solid 75% of my time at the booth supporting others' stuff anyway (being in demos, running demos).

I don't really see a solution in terms of activity at the booth.

However! One thing you can probably count on is someone (I wonder who) running Dead of Night during one of the hard-core, fermenting, high-impact play sessions during the evening. If you haven't read about these before, then let me tell you, GenCon evenings with the independent-games crowd is like seeing the whole first page of Actual Play in action before your eyes. I know this game, and I know what playing it looks like. It seems to me that one such session will siphon all the copies off that rack at the booth within the first business hour of the following day.

Best, Ron

Another thing that I can suggest is that if you know someone who is going to Gencon that's a Dead of Night fan, ask them if they are willing to swing by Games on Demand, and offer to run it.

James

It's hard enough getting to know the games of the people who are there pulling for you in return. I suggest you send an emmissary. I'd be surprised if it wasn't worth it. Sure, they'll get to have all the fun, but you'll be able to split the earnings with someone and get a lot more books sold.

Ok, thanks for that guys, that's helped clear things up. I will investigate the possibility of one of my UK compatriots can be persuaded to help me out.

I had a question on Hotel stuff. On GenCon's site it mentions that after you buy your badge or register your table, etc, you will get info on the hotel discount code for GenCon. When we sign up for forge space with you, and you register for our badges, will you provide us with the code they give you?

I have done this in the past and will do so again if timing permits, for the exhibitors who need it. In the past, nearly everyone ends up getting a hotel room via friends and family who aren't exhibitors. If you don't, then let me know.

Best, Ron

Ron wrote:
In the past, nearly everyone ends up getting a hotel room via friends and family who aren't exhibitors.

No, the family and friends are registered at the con as attendess and so get access to a booking code for the hotels that allows them to book nearby/discounted rooms.

Hi Travis,

Just to give an example. I'm hoping to have my first game ready by Gen Con. I'm going with five to eleven local gamers. One of them is getting the hotel rooms for everyone, including me. This leaves my options open. Last year I had no game and was going by myself and someone was looking for roommates so I ended up joining them, which worked out great.

This is one of those threads where I find myself nodding and agreeing with nearly everything that's been said.  Suffice it to say that beyond Evil Hat's own interests, we do have a "community interest" in making our products (and selves) deliver maximum value to the group as a whole.  I agree with Luke in particular that we may be able to offer something to the other booth participants this year, and that's definitely a component of the staying-put urge ("why can't we be a tentpole for the forge?").

So: awesome.  Thanks for exploring both sides of this with me; it's one of those decisions that I wanted to feel well-grounded in, and now I do.  (Though if folks have more to add to either side of the discussion, please don't take this as a signal that the thread's wholly done!)

I think you meant to post here: http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=23178.0 right?

Travis wrote: I think you meant to post here: http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=23178.0 right?

Heya,

What are the hours for the exhibitors and what time will we need to be there each day?  This may affect the place I choose to sleep at night.

Peace,

-Troy

Hi Troy,

Wednesday, Thursday, Friday: 10 AM through 6 PM
Sunday: 10 AM through 4 PM

As a general note to everyone, please check out the information at the GenCon site. A lot of what's being asked is not booth-specific, Forge-specific stuff, and I'd appreciate it if you got up to speed about that kind of thing through the site that exists for that purpose.

Best, Ron

Actually I thought that you had posted something, Ron, about how the forge people needed to be there earlier for a morning meeting and after close up for another meeting each day even if not scheduled at the start or right up til the end of the day. I think that may be what Tony is talking about in part, do we come in earlier than the standard open time.

Yes.  Be there about a half hour before open, and expect to stay about a half hour after. 

If you are intending to get a coffee/donut/morning thing, give yourself another half hour at least; morning lineups are insane.

You're officially cut loose after some daily booth notes, then people clump into groups, go eat, and then go gaming, all within easy walking distance.

James

I notice the plan for this year once again includes booth monkey/ninja/helper people.

I am actually strongly considering just going as an attendee this year. Last year, it was explicitly stated that monkeys were not needed, and I whined my way in the back door with the promise of working, only to find there really wasn't much for me to do. The booth was constantly crowded, all the companies present brought more than enough bodies to do whatever they needed doing, and when I was around there I mostly felt like I was in the way. This is not a complaint, I'm just saying, it seems like monkeys have become extraneous. And that's ok, because although it's cool to get in early, stay late, and generally hang out with fellow Forgies, I actually ended up not doing much in the way of work, and more importantly, I ended up not doing much gaming.

So I'm thinking of trying to round up some non-Forge friends and make a go at being an attendee. Maybe even signing up for some events. Getting to actually sit down and play some demos as a regular joe rather than feeling like I'm just filling a seat. Now that's not to say I wouldn't still happily carry stuff or run an errand if somebody needs it, I'm still a Forgizen, after all. But I think this year I'd rather spend more time gaming and less time underfoot.

That said, if there is an explicit need for monkeys this year due to changes in the program, and by some quirk of the universe there are not enough other people up for it, I'm still willing, but that seems unlikely.

I figured I'd ask before buying my badge, though. So lemme know.

So, given that reservation information went out yesterday for standard (non-vendor) pre-registration folks, and I hear now that no reservations are available (via the gencon site) within 6 miles of the convention center, am I screwed, or is there a special vendor code (which I've asked about before) I'm gonna get a chance at seeing soon?

I may find myself singularly uninterested in driving to the convention center every morning, enough so that I may reconsider attending. :(

Fred,

I recall Greg Porter last year trying to enlist cohorts in renting a corporate business suite that's within walking distance of the convention center.

Paul

iago wrote:
So, given that reservation information went out yesterday for standard (non-vendor) pre-registration folks, and I hear now that no reservations are available (via the gencon site) within 6 miles of the convention center, am I screwed, or is there a special vendor code (which I've asked about before) I'm gonna get a chance at seeing soon?

I may find myself singularly uninterested in driving to the convention center every morning, enough so that I may reconsider attending. :(

Thanks for the pointers, folks. I put out some feelers over on my LiveJournal as well, and ended up in a place about 1 mile away from the convention center.  Good enough for my needs.

Evil Hat will be there!

Man In the future the forge should just reserve half of a small hotel like a ramada or something and rent a van and disperse the cost between everyone who's attending and just taxi everyone in to the show and back at certain times of the day (i.e. be on the bus at X:00 or miss it and get yourself there or back) people could bunk up with one another and then people wouldn't have to be scrambling for hotel accomodations 6 MONTHS before the show even starts.

Travis, that's awesome. I can just see some poor desk clerk's face as the mass of the forge booth decended on their quiet little hotel. It taps into my Viking roots, and I for one, love it. Something to think about for next year.

Some notes from previous years:

Stickers- These really helped me figure out my sales approach. I'd like to see them return.

Games-on-Demand- If you are going to run a G-o-D, make sure that the folks at the booth know, and have a way to get ahold of you. Ideally i'd like to see a schedual posted listing the times that our G-o-D folks are available, the games they can run, the number of people they want/need, ect.

Demos- My biggest problem last year was having people watching an existing demo, asking questions and wanting to play themselves. So I'd run around trying to set up a demo only to discover that no one else was available to demo that game other than the person who the customers had been watching. At that point i either had to maintain their intrest for as long as it took to wrap up the demo, divert their attention to another game or watch them leave because they didn't want to wait. So- Please teach other people your demo. Nothing sells demos like an in-progress demo, so if you are demoing, please be sure that there is someone waiting in the wings to take on the next group, because there will be one.

Oh, and hi everyone, I'm back. Can't wait for August.