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Topic: [Steal Away Jordan] Brutality in all its forms
Started by: Ron Edwards
Started on: 7/10/2008
Board: Actual Play


On 7/10/2008 at 9:10pm, Ron Edwards wrote:
[Steal Away Jordan] Brutality in all its forms

We played on the same day as described in [3:16] Another damned Bambi! Shoot it, shoot it! AK-K-K-K-K!, but later in the evening, in my living room. The players were the same: Tod, Julie, Maura, Ralph, and me.

It was a deeply moving experience.

Goals and Tasks and Motives are a bit hard to parse in terms of which enclose which, and which are and are not known to the GM. We decided to treat the Motives as relatively fixed, with Goals as the next subset inside them, and Tasks within Goals. That's pretty much how it's presented at first in the text and a few examples, but not always - especially since apparently one can have Tasks without an overriding Goal or Motive. The text is also inconsistent in terms of which of these things are known to the GM, so we went with the most restrictive, in which the GM doesn't know any of them at all.

As you might be able to tell from my own game designs, I greatly appreciate how player-driven actions create the story. The GM can only provide (a) the context of grinding oppression and (b) narrations after rolls. Those narrations can be very significant, but they cannot be front-loaded and planned. This is how I most enjoy playing Dust Devils, with my minor tweak of staying ignorant about the Devils or anything else is on the sheets until they comes into play, but even more so.

In the interest of time, we used single Motives per character, which was reasonably OK but I certainly am interested in going further next time. More on that after this account.

As for the setting, I wanted to move a bit away from the 1850s, which all of us were very familar with through education and popular culture, but still to be deeply entwined with American history. Our first thought was to set it during the American Revolution, which I'd like to get around to someday, but we then kicked around ideas based on individuals' specific knowledge.

Ralph and Maura turned out to know a lot about 17th and 18th century American slavery and piracy, which is really fascinating, specifically the details of Charleston, South Carolina. Maura or Ralph, I can't recall which, had visited the former slave market, which architecturally speaking is still there. We settled on 1740-ish, in the city itself, which was useful because there were plantations not too distant as well.

Here are the characters - I didn't know the Motives and stuff in detail, so I'll wait for one of the others to clarify those.

Julie - young plantation slave who is now a town-slave, given as a gift to her owner's daughter in the city, wet nurse
born in West Indies, born into slavery
misshapen hands from field labor
Jezebel, Worth = 10
owner = Joanna Lewis, treats her as confidante
friend = Sheba (recently met)
enemy = Lewis family cook, another slave
Her Goals involved reuniting with her own son

Maura - old woman, root doctor, born in Barbados, practically toothless, absenteeism, washerwoman who was leased out a lot but not so much now, works for low status but wealthy household who's on the rocks
Sheba, Worth = 6
owner = Charles Colson Esqire, gracious but suspicious treatment
friend = Hepzibah, maid at governor's house
enemy = Clementine Colson, daughter (chased away no-good boy)
Her Goals involved getting an apprentice and moving out into the swamp

Tod - older man, skilled carpenter, owned by guild
originally from New England, mother from Africa and doesn't know much about his past
missing part of finger from a punishment, also a bit arthritic, hot & cold personality
Cain, Worth = 9
owner = carpenter's guild, valued but not trusted
friend = Coal, skilled worker, fellow slave, mason
enemy = guild treasurer's son
His Goals involved becoming a respected professional

Ralph - early 30s man, valet turned pirate (killed master), recaptured, owned by colony judiciary by way of the British Navy
born in America, scarred from pirate life and also hurt by recent whipping, presents a broken demeanor
Buck (like all the men currently in his situation), Worth = 9 - 2
owner (representative) = Cyrus, procurer for the Navy, treats him as an object
friend = white boy, likes to hear stories
enemy = Harry, lowlife white sailor who recognizes him from pirate days ("Bloody Tom")
His Goals involved returning to the sea

Sheba's story didn't quite gel; Maura flailed a bit and tried either to repeat failed stuff or to set up other stuff too far in advance. I think I should have provided her more direct adversity as well - even though the major plot is created through player-announced actions, it's also important to have serious external problems as well. One thing I'll remember when I play again, especially if I'm not GMing, is that sometimes a Task simply has to be abandoned.

Jezebel's story was a flat bummer - she never got to her child, she got poisoned but levered into a position of influence, her enemy got hanged, and the Lewis kid never got better. Overall, it was a nasty story about people doing cruel things to survive in a fucked-up society. It was a good, dramatic, driving story, but really grim.

Cain's story was the most detailed and nuanced, for me. I crossed over an NPC that was invented for Buck's story, the almost-entirely objectionable Captain Worthington, and through some interesting choices and tense rolls, Tod had Cain actually brought very high in the guild's estimation. Not knowing about the Motive and Goals, I was intrigued by the idea of what this rather tightly-wrapped character would do if a door swung unexpectedly open ... so I had the guild give him the chance to buy himself free eventually. Cain was a really good character; he reminded me a lot of the James Evans character in the old show Good Times (played by John Amos). This was definitely not the end of this guy's story - he was now absolutely in the middle between the slave and free world, accepted by neither despite his current achievement, and now in a position of leadership over other slaves. It's a good example of why I'd like to keep playing, because achieving one Goal was kind of like Chapter 1. My next move would certainly be to put his friend Coal (established as a bit of a mischief-maker) into serious danger.

Buck's story was rather a good sort-of "escape" adventure with a hard-driven anti-hero edge to it. He managed to get on the good side of Captain Worthington, who was no less a sadistic son of a bitch in this side of the story than in the other. It culminated in a brutal fight with Harry and Buck basically becoming "Bloody Tom" again, only now in the employ of the British Navy. Still a slave, but with influence and license to inflict harm on anyone he wanted.

Ralph and I did not quite mesh in our interpretation of how Conflicts get conceived and stated. I am very much a Dust Devils person about this and dislike storyboarding or negotiating about what a character would or wouldn't do, and what will or will not happen because of it.

It's immediately apparent to me that this is a game which requires some "getting good at," and I see that as an attractive feature rather than a problem. I want to get good at it via more play, more learning about history, and more reflection. As with the other games that I think are allied to it, the first experience can be very good, but also just a wee bit superficial, filled-in a bit too often with tropes or bits which merely recapitulate (in this case) The Color Purple or Roots. I want to read up a little, using the references in the book, and take it slower next time, through multiple sessions and opening up the fluidity of changing Tasks, Goals, and Motives.

We were all intrigued by that fluidity, which is a big deal in more extended play. The others, who were closer to the issue because they'd known all the details during play, suggested that there be a big no-GM discussion about that between every session, which I think is a good idea.

The mechanics were very satisfying in terms of the Lucky Sevens, the skull die (which sure turned up a lot of skulls), and especially the re-rolls within Major Conflicts. There were some real nail-biters involved along the way. Also, the usage of help to prompt a full re-roll was absolutely perfect for Buck's story.

I am a bit curious about the probabilities, especially the non-Lucky-Seven non-one rerolls when you have a hell of a lot of dice. On a few occasions, a character looked to be steamrolled on the initial roll between (say) twenty vs. seven dice, but then the results evened out after the second step. None of that caused any issues to object to in narrative terms, but Ralph raised the question as to whether more dice really was advantageous. Maybe someone will work it out for us one day.

It's always cool to see system reinforce theme in unexpected ways. We'd become grimly accustomed to the insane amount of dice rolled for a white propertied character, but later, when necessary, I looked up the amount for a lowlife white cracker ... to find that it was almost as high! That led to a shared grunt among everyone at the table - distinctions among white characters might seem very important to them, but to a black slave, white is white - it was very hard-hitting for us.

Best, Ron

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On 7/10/2008 at 10:05pm, GreatWolf wrote:
Re: [Steal Away Jordan] Brutality in all its forms

I am a bit curious about the probabilities, especially the non-Lucky-Seven non-one rerolls when you have a hell of a lot of dice. On a few occasions, a character looked to be steamrolled on the initial roll between (say) twenty vs. seven dice, but then the results evened out after the second step. None of that caused any issues to object to in narrative terms, but Ralph raised the question as to whether more dice really was advantageous. Maybe someone will work it out for us one day.


My understanding is that someone worked it out and, at a certain point, more dice is actually worse for you, not better. Julia has mentioned that she sees this as a positive feature of the game.

I've been promising to run this for Crystal; I really need to do that soon.

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On 7/10/2008 at 10:41pm, Graham Walmsley wrote:
RE: Re: [Steal Away Jordan] Brutality in all its forms

GreatWolf wrote:
My understanding is that someone worked it out and, at a certain point, more dice is actually worse for you, not better.


I believe that, although this appears to be the case, it's not. Steve calculated it. More dice are better for you, although it's a flat curve, and only very slightly better.

Ron, when we played, we found Steal Away Jordan a curiously hopeful game, even though your character keeps getting screwed over. Even though the bad stuff happens, you're working towards your goals, however hopeless they seem. It's an extraordinary game.

Graham

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On 7/11/2008 at 12:29am, jrs wrote:
RE: Re: [Steal Away Jordan] Brutality in all its forms

I've been wanting to play Steal Away Jordan for such a long time that this was a treat. I really enjoyed the pacing of it and how our stories progressed through the game. Although Ron described my character's story as grim and cruel, I think I agree with Graham that it had a kernel of hope to it. I was not expecting it, but thrilled to have that.

In our usual game debriefing Ralph and I hashed over our thoughts about the goal/task tweaking suggested in the text. That isn't described in detail and gives the impression that it can happen on the fly. We thought it would be useful to have that a bit more formalized. Maybe have goals and tasks only adjusted immediately before each session. One of things I liked about the game was the comradery amongst the players in cheering on completed tasks especially when they take a form different from originally stated, so having the opportunity to adjust the tasks among the players (minus GM) as a an event appeals to me.

Julie

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On 7/15/2008 at 2:11am, Jumanji83 wrote:
RE: Re: [Steal Away Jordan] Brutality in all its forms

Hope is a funny thing.

Without it, why would you go on. I firmly believe that every character should have at least the barest glimmer of hope, even in the grimmest of setting, otherwise, what's the point of going on? If you don't believe there is the slightest chance of success, why even keep trying? Without hope, people become stagnant, they no longer take an active part in their story.

Hope can be seen as a dark thing though. People do not always dare to hope, because when you are hopeful, you might be disapointed. It is better, perhaps, to accept fatality.

In the myth of Pandora's box, the last thing to come out of it was Hope. Some people interpret it as a little saving grace, to balance all the evil that came out before it. But more cynical others, says it's just the last evil to come out, an emotion that just sets us up for disapointment. A cruel joke played on us by the gods.

So I think it's awesome that SAJ has hope built in, and doubly great that the characters' goals will be hard to reach. That they have hope makes it even more heart-wrenching when they fail (and uplifting when they succeed).

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On 7/15/2008 at 6:29am, Parthenia wrote:
RE: Re: [Steal Away Jordan] Brutality in all its forms

This sounds like a cool game. Thanks for playing and posting the AP!

Here are my first two questions: Was this a one shot and the characters' stories were told start to finish in one session or will you play these characters again?

And I'd like to hear more about how the re-rolls with Major Conflicts went. (It's one of the "hope" mechanics).

Julia

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On 7/15/2008 at 3:13pm, Ron Edwards wrote:
RE: Re: [Steal Away Jordan] Brutality in all its forms

Hi Julia!

Because Ralph was visiting from out of town, we probably won't get a chance to play with exactly all four characters again. The original intention was to play just with one Motive for each character for purposes of that particular day.

However, I am inclined to suggest continuing with the three other characters anyway, using Julie's suggestion of beginning each session with a GM-not-invited confab about the Motives, Tasks, and Goals. I think all three of them offer extremely rich opportunities, and even Tod's character, who achieved the most of the three, is more at an end-chapter-one stage than a finished-story stage, as I mentioned.

Another reason to keep going is that Steal Away Jordan requires a little practice as people become used to the mechanics and the overall story-structure ... and we haven't even seen my favorite part yet, player-character death and the ensuing options.

Therefore if the others are willing, I'll probably brush up on the history myself and we'll keep going.

Regarding the re-rolls and the Major Conflicts, let's see if I can remember. The other people will probably chime in with multiple corrections of whatever mistakes I make.

OK, let's do the one with Cain and Captain Worthington. The scene had begun with Coal suggesting they sabotage this shed they were working on at the shipyard, and Cain won a Minor Bargain and got Coal to agree to the opposite, making it the best shed ever instead. Along comes Captain Worthington, asshole extraordinaire, who is irritated to see them "loafing around" - as it happens, they were done for the day and were just getting ready to leave. Worthington felt like seeing a slave beaten, so singled out Cain on a trumped-up claim that their work must be worthless.

So there was a Major Conflict with a risk of punishment, based on Worthington's inspection of the shed. It was kind of a nailbiter not just because of the the risk, but of consequences for the friendship and the implied slight disparity of values within it. As I recall, the results of the first round of rolling put Worthington only a little ahead, to our surprise given the difference in dice, and also because a lot of Cain's dice were neither 1's nor Lucky Sevens. I think Worthington's dice had turned up a lot of 1's. Then all the non-1's and non-Lucky Sevens were re-rolled, and Cain gained a bit, and it ended up tied. So we followed the rules for what to do when that happens - was it the Skull die? I think so ... Anyway, that turned out in Cain's favor after all. Pretty intense!

(I may be mixing up mechanics from different conflicts. I do know we saw a tie at a major crux-point, though.)

Another big one came in at the end of Buck's story, in which he'd ended up in a pretty disadvantaged position out at sea. Harry had managed to subvert his reputation and get in charge of supervising him doing a lot of scut-work, and I decided to pull out the stops and have Harry try to beat him to death. Ralph did not take this lying down and had Buck (or "Bloody Tom" as he saw himself) pull the knife given to him by his friend earlier. I won this roll, big-time, throughout the initial and the re-roll steps of the conflict. Ralph then used the helping rules, to bring Captain Worthington into the situation, and said that the two of them were set against each other in classic rag-in-teeth knife combat. This time Buck's roll came out decisively on top, and Harry was killed upon the appearance of the skull. (The skull killed at least two NPCs, maybe more, so it was plain lucky that none of the player-characters bought it when they rolled it against themselves.)

Best, Ron

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On 7/16/2008 at 10:45pm, Valamir wrote:
RE: Re: [Steal Away Jordan] Brutality in all its forms

Since Bloody Tom's story is pretty much done, having achieved his one and only goal, playing without him shouldn't be a problem.  Especially since he is now away at sea happily carrying out Captain Worthington's dirty work by continually pursuing his motivation of "Killing proves I'm better". 

In terms of the mechanics for those two scenes.  Both involved a key minor conflict leading up to the major...which both happened nearly identically.  In Cain's minor conflict he wound up with two 7s and you wound up with two 7s with a tied total.  You rolled a 2 on the tie breaker and Cain won, claiming four 7s to help with the shed inspection conflict.  In mine, I wound up with two 7s and you wound up with two 7s with a tied total (this was the "get the drop on Harry" conflict.)  You again rolled a 2 on the tie breaker, but this time I rolled...a 1, and Harry got the four 7s to add to his 18 worth to pit against my 9 worth +1 Task die in a fight to the death.

In our conflict I wound up with a total after reroll of -1 and Harry wound up with something like 7 or 8.  I was all prepared to see Tom's story end in tragedy having fulfilled only one of my Tasks ("get a job at the docks").  That was when Julie reminded us of the Push your Luck rule with the Skull die, which I ,of course, siezed and rolled.  The result was the aid from an ally which caused the Major Conflict to be refought and gave +3 dice to me.

So we narrated that the result of the major conflict was that Harry had beat the ever loving crap out of me and just as he was about to finish me off, my new master Captain Worthington showed up (story note:  I had connived to get bought by Captain Worthington so as to fullfill my task of getting to the docks, the Captain had bought me to use as his weapon of fear and punishment.  Harry was my enemy, a sailor who recognized that I had been a pirate before being recaptured and resold.  He'd won an earlier minor conflict in which he had convinced the rest of the crew to laugh at me whereever I went, thus undermining my use to the captain as a weapon of fear and leading to my being assigned labor duty under Harry's supervision).

Captain W, seeing one of his crew fighting with his property, had us bound together Indian wrestling style and we went at it with knives.  This time I rolled insanely well (getting like 4-5 points on 13 dice).  Harry, with his 22 dice was ahead by 1 point after the first roll, but the reroll of unmatched dice came up nearly all 1s and hosed him badly.  Tom won!

Ron decided that since this was a fight to the death, that Harry should roll the skull die for his injury and it came up...a Skull!  Tom totally killed Harry dead.  I asked Ron if that fight put me back in Worthington's good graces and he said absolutely, I was now Worthington's pet killer aboard ship.

I promptly checked off my last two tasks which were "Kill my Supervisor" (having nicely maneuvered to make my enemy Harry my supervisor) and "get a ship to accept me as crew"...both the last two parts of my Goal "Escape to Sea"

Tom was a totally not nice person who revealed in the brutality of his time as a pirate and longed to get back to the sea where he was free to kill and butcher.  Far from seeing Captain Worthington as a horrible villain, I imagine he's just about the only white person he has any actual respect...even admiration...for.  I suspect he sees Worthington as being "Worthy" of his loyalty...them both being cruel and ruthless killers.

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On 7/17/2008 at 1:28am, Parthenia wrote:
RE: Re: [Steal Away Jordan] Brutality in all its forms

[Squeals with joy] Ralph, that sounds so frickin' awesome! Thank you all! I may come back with more questions about the game, once I climb off this cloud of happiness.

Julia

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