Topic: The articles and reviews are back
Started by: lumpley
Started on: 1/5/2010
Board: Site Discussion
On 1/5/2010 at 2:23pm, lumpley wrote:
The articles and reviews are back
So that's good.
-Vincent
On 1/5/2010 at 3:29pm, Jasper Flick wrote:
Re: The articles and reviews are back
It sure is! Thanks Vincent.
On 1/5/2010 at 4:33pm, Eliarhiman6 wrote:
RE: Re: The articles and reviews are back
Thanks, Vincent!
So, now it's the time to start with the feature requests? ;-)
P.S.: the "about the forge" page has a dead link to the resource library
On 1/5/2010 at 6:31pm, lumpley wrote:
RE: Re: The articles and reviews are back
You just wanted dates on the articles, right? Done.
-Vincent
On 1/6/2010 at 12:19pm, Eliarhiman6 wrote:
RE: Re: The articles and reviews are back
lumpley wrote:
You just wanted dates on the articles, right? Done.
-Vincent
Ehm... "System Does Matter" written in 2003???? These can't be the right dates...
I made (for my personal informations and pleasure) some research on the first period of the forge using the wayback machine. These are the links to the pages of the first three articles with the date used at the time (I don't know if they are correct, because the "Nuked Apple Car" article talk abut being written in 1998)
http://web.archive.org/web/20010505152751/www.indie-rpgs.com/articles/applecart.html
The Nuked Apple Cart: 19 May 1999
http://web.archive.org/web/20010509180546/www.indie-rpgs.com/articles/systemmatters.html
System Does Matter : 14 July 1999
http://web.archive.org/web/20010512063529/www.indie-rpgs.com/articles/warstories.html
War Stories : 18 February 2000
I don't have at this time the dates for the next articles, but I can discover them checking the forum, if you need them.
The second "feature request" I made was about some sort of introduction to the articles section, to explain their genesis and the fact that it's an historical archive, not a up-to-date list of teaching text about the current state of the theoty. This thing does trip a lot of people up. A friend of mine had the rather surreal experience, in an Italian forum, of having his posted informations about current forge theory (posted with links to recent thread in the forum) contested because "system does matter say other things, and seeing that this one is an article, non a forum post, has more relevance". Even without arriving to these surreal excesses, a lot of people take these things as a sort of introduction to the theory and it's becoming rather tedious having to explain the nature of this section every single time (as you had to do yourself a few hours ago here: http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=29179.msg272288#msg272288 ). Even more when you have a lot of people in a foreign language forum that have to work for days with a dictionary to get to read a single article, and they don't usually react well when you say that they did read the wrong article.
A short introduction at the top of the page (instead of the current text "Here are some essays and thoughts by Forge members to help you design or publish your indie game, or merely think about role-playing games and how to improve your own experiences" that doesn't say very much) would prevent much of this.
Forge Reference Links:
Topic 29179
On 1/6/2010 at 1:00pm, lumpley wrote:
RE: Re: The articles and reviews are back
The 2003 dates must be when they went into the database. Those are all the dates I've got. I'll think about solutions.
An introduction isn't a feature request! Feature requests are technical. If you feel like maybe writing an introduction yourself, get with Ron and see what he thinks.
Thanks, Moreno!
-Vincent
On 1/6/2010 at 2:48pm, Ron Edwards wrote:
RE: Re: The articles and reviews are back
The Nuked Apple-Cart was written in November-December 1998, and made available on-line at the Gaming Outpost in May 1999.
System Does Matter was begun during the same November-December period in 1998, completed in early 1999, and made available on-line at the Gaming Outpost in July 1999.
The Gaming Outpost had a bit of a lag period for posting articles and reviews; I submitted both essays in February or March of 1999.
Both essays were originally intended for the newsletter of the Game Publishers Association, but at this late date, I can't remember whether I actually submitted them there. I may never have got around to it. If I did, they didn't even get close to being included.
Best, Ron
On 1/6/2010 at 3:30pm, lumpley wrote:
RE: Re: The articles and reviews are back
Done, done and done.
I don't have time to research the original dates myself, but I can pop them into the database if someone else finds them.
Here are the others whose original dates I don't have:
Simulationism: The Right to Dream by Ron Edwards
More Fantasy Heartbreakers by Ron Edwards
Fantasy Heartbreakers by Ron Edwards
GNS and Other Matters of Role-playing Theory by Ron Edwards
How to Make Your Own Role-playing Game (Cheap) by Clinton R. Nixon
The Crunchy Bits #1: Introduction to the Grimy Nastiness by Emily K. Dresner-Thornber
The Crunchy Bits #2: "Hell, there are no rules here - we're trying to accomplish something." by Emily K. Dresner-Thornber
-Vincent
On 1/6/2010 at 4:43pm, Eliarhiman6 wrote:
RE: Re: The articles and reviews are back
This is how I go to search for the dates, in case someone would care to join in this research (come on, it's fun!).
Using the wayback machine, I discovered that in 2001/2002 the address of the articles section was not http://www.indie-rpgs.com/articles.html , but it was http://indie-rpgs.com/articles.html.
The wayback machine took four "snapshots" of this page:
Oct 07, 2001 had already these articles:
The Crunchy Bits #1: Introduction to the Grimy Nastiness by Emily K. Dresner-Thornber
The Crunchy Bits #2: "Hell, there are no rules here - we're trying to accomplish something." by Emily K. Dresner-Thornber
Publishing Your Web-Based Indie Game for Under $100 by Clinton R. Nixon (that was published first here: www.acid-reflex.com/roleplay.php/indie_publishing
Dec 12, 2001 had this one added: "GNS and Other Matters of Role-playing Design"
Feb 04, 2002 had nothing added
Apr 02, 2002 had this one added: "Fantasy Heartbreakers by Ron Edwards"
The first snapshot of the new address of the articles section, on February 2003, show these articles added:
Simulationism: The Right to Dream by Ron Edwards
More Fantasy Heartbreakers by Ron Edwards
Before the articles section, the first three articles were in the "Publishing" section, but they had disappeared with the Aug. 02 2001 snapshot . They were still there in the June 04 2001 snapshot. Ergo, the articles section was born in this time frame.
With these information, it's possible to limit the search on the forum to specific time periods, avoiding the necessity to read a lot of pages of results (try searching for "GNS" in this forum to see a seach engine getting a stroke...)
Searching for "GNS and Other Matters of Role-playing Design" I found this thread, started on 14 Oct 2001.
"New essay by Ron" http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=747.0
The search for the first Heartbreaker article is simple: try searching for the very first use of the word "Heartbreaker":
""Fantasy Heartbreakers" by Ron Edwards" - http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=1750.0 (April 1, 2002)
The seach for the second aHeartbreaker article is not so easy, but with the limited time frame shows above, it can be done in a reasonable time, with a little patience:
"New article up " - http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=4858.0 (Jan 17, 2003)
Forge Reference Links:
Topic 747
Topic 1750
Topic 4858
On 1/6/2010 at 5:36pm, lumpley wrote:
RE: Re: The articles and reviews are back
Got 'em, thanks Moreno.
Anybody help out with these?
Simulationism: The Right to Dream by Ron Edwards
How to Make Your Own Role-playing Game (Cheap) by Clinton R. Nixon
The Crunchy Bits #1: Introduction to the Grimy Nastiness by Emily K. Dresner-Thornber
The Crunchy Bits #2: "Hell, there are no rules here - we're trying to accomplish something." by Emily K. Dresner-Thornber
-Vincent
On 1/6/2010 at 5:38pm, Eliarhiman6 wrote:
RE: Re: The articles and reviews are back
For both of the Emily Dresner articles, read this thread:
Emily Dresner article series begins! http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=646.0
The dates are Sept 12, 2001 and Sept. 25, 2001
About Clinton's article:
New article - 'Publishing Your Indie Game for Under $100' - http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=551.0 (Aug 24, 2001)
The "right to Dream" essay:
In this thread:
"The Forge, version 3" - http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=4974.0
Clinton write: (on Jan 29, 2003):
"The 3rd version of The Forge will be going live Monday morning." and then, in another post: "Geez, I forgot the most exciting part of the revision: We've got a new article on Simulationism, a new review of Godlike, and a new game, all by our ever-profilic Professor Edwards. That's a Monday morning to look forward to, I assure you."
And then, of Feb 01, 2001: "The upgrade has happened, on schedule."
So i would seem that the date for the Right to Dream Article is Feb 01, 2003, but the Godlike review has the date of Jan 27, 2003 (probably the date when it was written). Anyway the Feb 01 date is good enough in my opinion.
P.S.: Vincent, do you remember this one? ;-)
"I'm new, but that doesn't stop me having crackpot theories."
Forge Reference Links:
Topic 646
Topic 551
Topic 4974
Topic 420
On 1/6/2010 at 5:41pm, Eliarhiman6 wrote:
RE: Re: The articles and reviews are back
And then, of Feb 01, 2001: "The upgrade has happened, on schedule."
Ooops! Feb 01, 2003!
On 1/6/2010 at 6:01pm, lumpley wrote:
RE: Re: The articles and reviews are back
Done, done and done.
(Dang. How little my crackpot theory has changed over the past almost-decade.)
-Vincent
On 1/7/2010 at 10:54am, Artanis wrote:
RE: Re: The articles and reviews are back
Wow Moreno, nice archive delving!
On 1/7/2010 at 11:01pm, M. J. Young wrote:
RE: Re: The articles and reviews are back
Thanks, Vincent. It's good that the links are good again--those articles are linked from many places.
--M. J. Young