Greetings All,

So, I've been working on bits and pieces of Crystal Spheres, started a Psionics Expansion, begun a Quick Start Rules (none of which are done or posted to the Yahoo group yet) when, while clearing out old files, I found something that made me go "Oooh, that might be a good way to demonstrate my meta-mechanic."

Meta-Mechanic?

Ah, yeh, my meta-mechanic. Otherwise known as the resolution system currently used in Crystal Spheres- now named the LOAD™ System, since I felt it needed a name so it could be discussed as a entity unto itself- but this post isn't about any of this really.

Rather I want to ask for input about 1) how to best set up system to allow variable mileus to be played in Space Vixens and 2) what sort of narrative method would be best suited for a "serial" chapter by chapter narrative style game. Which is what I envision Space Vixen to be. Oh, yeah, and very yesteryear SF space babes wanting to rule the galaxy tongue-in-check with rayguns and the threat of hurting by meanie villains who also want to rule the galaxy.

Presently I have the CharGen system in place. You'll be rolling on tables for descriptors, which you (the player) will get to use to describe your Space Vixen. The characters will also have a number of stats, like "Pump", but right now I am looking for ideas about how to implement the narrative portion.

This is what I want: Game sessions to be "chapter by chapter" begining with a synopsis that outlines the current "Movie" and stated goals, if any. Each chapter should end when something major happens, like in the old cliffhangers, like when it *appears* someone has been killed or a villain defeated. New chapters, of course, to open with that *twist* where the characters are revealed to not really be dead/defeated et al.

Any ideas?

Comments?

Thanks.


Kind Regards,

Kester Pelagius

Kester,

Can you give us a little more to work with? I mean, your questions seem to me so open as to be unanswerable. Can you tell us a bit more about what you've got?

Greetings clehrich,

clehrich wrote: Can you give us a little more to work with? I mean, your questions seem to me so open as to be unanswerable. Can you tell us a bit more about what you've got?

Hi Kester,

I've downloaded your Crystal Spheres v.02 and had a quick look.

Your subject title and your first message both make references to "narrative" and "narrative method". Do you intend this as a reference to narrativist priorities in Ron's GNS essay? If so, I gotta say your current design is pretty solidly set in the S range of GNS: You've got character mechanics that define capabilities in the imaginary world, and a resolution system that focuses on tasks.

So how are you using "narrative"?

Kester Pelagius wrote: ... I want: Game sessions to be "chapter by chapter" begining with a synopsis that outlines the current "Movie" and stated goals, if any. Each chapter should end when something major happens, like in the old cliffhangers, like when it *appears* someone has been killed or a villain defeated. New chapters, of course, to open with that *twist* where the characters are revealed to not really be dead/defeated et al.

Greetings Alan,

Alan wrote: I've downloaded your Crystal Spheres v.02 and had a quick look.

Your subject title and your first message both make references to "narrative" and "narrative method". Do you intend this as a reference to narrativist priorities in Ron's GNS essay? If so, I gotta say your current design is pretty solidly set in the S range of GNS: You've got character mechanics that define capabilities in the imaginary world, and a resolution system that focuses on tasks.

Alan wrote: So how are you using "narrative"?

Alan wrote: Or, if you want to make narration and story structure rules for your current design, we can help with that too.

Kester Pelagius wrote: I can almost see how to set that up, but I need to have the methodology for the actual way the players generate the spontaneous narrative to really set it up, wouldn't I?

Hey Kester, I'd encourage you to buy and read Inspectres. I'm not the best person to give you an analysis of how and why it works, but... it provides a structure for the scenes the characters will be involved in, which kind of focuses the incredible powers that the players have to influence the game so that everyone is working together to create something that feels familiar genre-wise (and is fun for everyone involved). The players can create plot objectives as they go along and get rewards for completing them (but are under no obligation to do so).

Anyway there're reviews at the Forge on it which can explain how it works better than I. It might be exactly what you're looking for.

Hi Kester,

Okay, it seems you've been using "narrative" in the general dictionary definition, rather than the technical meaning usually used here at the Forge.

Yet, you also say

Space Vixens is, or I would like it to be, something of a story generating system. (I never really dealt with storyteller systms so much of what others may take for granted I probably have not a clue, but here I am, and there ya go.)

I think the suggestion about InSpectres is apt, but there's a disconnect. InSpectres will create incredibly episodic play. But what Kester wants it Serial.

How InSpectres works is easy. It tells you what scenes you're going to have each and every session you play. You just determine the outcome of the scenes in question.

For Kesters game, I suppose the analog would be to have types of scenes that come up. For example, maybe you roll for scene type (with a reroll if the same type repeats). Types could be, Exposition, Villain Cut-scene, Conflict set-up, Conflict Resolution, etc. Then when you reach the end of the play session the GM calls for the last scene to be a Cliffhanger, of course. Then each session starts with the resolution to the Cliffhanger.

Anyhow, you could build mechanics out of the effects of the flow of the scenes or someeuch.

This isn't well laid out, but just intended to give an idea of a way you can go.

BTW, the prime model for this would be the Dramatic Editing rules from Adventure! Make something like that the central mechanic of a game, and you'd have something like what you're looking for, I'd think.

Mike

I'm working on something for my game Danger Patrol that may be similar to what you're after here. The goal of play in DP is to create a seven-chapter serial adventure in the style of Flash Gordon. Each session of play is one chapter in the series. The players (and the GM) work together to create the content for the chapters, gradually building towards the climax with the Evil Mastermind(s). The events of each chapter provide "evidence" about who is behind the current peril until chapter 7, when all is revealed and the Big Bad takes a beating.

The style of play is very much player-controlled to the point that no one (not even the GM) knows for sure who the Evil Mastermind(s) will turn out to be until the end. Within each chapter, the play group creates a Bang, a Twist, and a Cliffhanger (to set up the next chapter). At these 3 breakpoints, the players have the opportunity to influence the game on a meta-level, as moderated by the game system (which I won't go into here).

So... um, yeah. I seem to be just pimping my own game here, which isn't exactly what I meant to do. I guess what I'm saying is this: for my game, I wanted to give the players narrativist-type tools so they could have a say in how the story goes (what's important, who's involved, where it happens, and so on). The mechanics are there as a reward system, mainly. When a player plays their character in the "Danger Patrol style", the player gets metagame rewards that give her more story-power. To make it work for a serial (instead of episodic) structure, I require the story elements to "hook up" to the next chapter in the serial, and move the overall arc towards the big showdown in chapter 7.

So, that's my advice. Give narrativist tools to the players, but make them work for the serial structure, as opposed to solely working on the "what's happening right now" level.

Greetings Zamiel,

Zamiel wrote: I suppose pointing out that the cliffhanger serials were anything but spontaneous narratives would be overkill here, no? In fact, people went to the show expecting a rather rigid structure to be presented to them, perhaps with novel elements but the formulea was set in stone.

Zamiel wrote: It seems to me that the best way to capture that sort of feel is to make sure your players are, in fact, in on it.

Zamiel wrote: Then, and only then, start back at the beginning with the characters. The Bangs they've planned will act as signposts. Your job, as Host, is to set the pace so that the tension builds as signposts are met. Steer gently, let the players do most of the heavy lifting. When you get to the cliffhanger climax, stop, pack up, and go home.

Greetings Alan,

Alan wrote: To my mind, all RPGs generate story. If one stages a series of imaginary events, the human mind automatically strings them together in a narrative. All RPGs are storyteller systems.

Alan wrote: I strongly urge you to buy and play several of the inexpensive games talked about here at the Forge. Here are some:

<...>

Really, seriously, Kester - try these out. Playing these will widen your kit of conceptual tools, so you can use them on your own game design.

Greetings Mike,

Mike Holmes wrote: I think the suggestion about InSpectres is apt, but there's a disconnect. InSpectres will create incredibly episodic play. But what Kester wants it Serial.

How InSpectres works is easy. It tells you what scenes you're going to have each and every session you play. You just determine the outcome of the scenes in question.

Mike Holmes wrote: For Kesters game, I suppose the analog would be to have types of scenes that come up. For example, maybe you roll for scene type (with a reroll if the same type repeats). Types could be, Exposition, Villain Cut-scene, Conflict set-up, Conflict Resolution, etc. Then when you reach the end of the play session the GM calls for the last scene to be a Cliffhanger, of course. Then each session starts with the resolution to the Cliffhanger.

Mike Holmes wrote: Anyhow, you could build mechanics out of the effects of the flow of the scenes or someeuch.

This isn't well laid out, but just intended to give an idea of a way you can go.

BTW, the prime model for this would be the Dramatic Editing rules from Adventure! Make something like that the central mechanic of a game, and you'd have something like what you're looking for, I'd think.

Greetings Feng,

Nice site, BTW.

Feng wrote: I'm working on something for my game Danger Patrol that may be similar to what you're after here. The goal of play in DP is to create a seven-chapter serial adventure in the style of Flash Gordon. Each session of play is one chapter in the series. The players (and the GM) work together to create the content for the chapters, gradually building towards the climax with the Evil Mastermind(s). The events of each chapter provide "evidence" about who is behind the current peril until chapter 7, when all is revealed and the Big Bad takes a beating.

Feng wrote: So, that's my advice. Give narrativist tools to the players, but make them work for the serial structure, as opposed to solely working on the "what's happening right now" level.

Kester Pelagius wrote: I was thinking of having the players create a basic synopsis prior to play (naming their serial and all that) maybe loosely establishing a beginning goal, have mechanics for plot twists and introduction of villains, but the key word is *thinking*. I need a good, clear, concise, and KISS way to do this.

So, Mike, would you want to play such a game?

If so, what would you want to see in it?

If not, why?