The Forge Archives

Hmmkay, discussion in Theroy over CCGs and RPGs sparked a old idea in me brain and I dug out the notes and samples from it. After some more work aligning the buggers, I think I have my Final Twilight CG cards properly formatted to 2x3.5 size.

Now, comes the fun part.
After I finish off the last deck, I'm setting myself up with a few of the online RPG-PDF stores with a PDF version of these cards, formatted to be printed on a common, perforated, business card stock.

My question: is there any way to control how many times a PDF may be printed? I know the sites limit chances to download, and I know PDFs are capable of having restrictions placed upon them, but anything like that? Would make having a customizable/collectable card game difficult if eveyone ran off a dozen copies of the file and shared it around the net (Not that the current indie crew would do that (on a large scale at least, aside from the occasional "Check this out!")

How to do so, or thoughts and comments on this 'grand experiment' would be much appreciated. For those watching the RPG/CG hybred issues, this may also be worth watching, as it might provide a decent clue if collectable issues can be dealt with easily or not.

I'm not all that conversant in DRM (Digital Rights Management) specifically, but I do know that Adobe has some of the best software on the market.  So, yes, there are ways to limit the number of printings and copies of PDF files.

However, why?  I would think that if you are going with a downloadable PDF model for the game that you will almost have to abandon the classic "buy more packs" model for the game anyway.  I just don't see any way to do it that won't be more aggravation for paying customers than it will be for pirates.  If you put printer limits on it what happens if the printer screws up, or if the cards get lost, or whatever?

My suggestion would be: instead of selling the entire set, to sell preconstructed decks.  Acknowledge that someone may buy such a deck, print out four copies, and play with their friends using just that deck.  Then realize that people who want more variety, or who want to customize things a bit more will purchase more decks.

Basically, DRM is a tough nut to crack.  Most schemes utilized to control Digital Rights end up being far more aggravating for the customer than the thief, and I'm sure you don't want that.

Thomas

I'm tackling it first with the precons that are already available.
I just want to avoid Person A running off A LOT of copies of the decks. As I've said before in the CCG vs RPG debates I've been in, one copy of an  RPG can serve a whole group, but CCG players each need their own. Thus, its not TOO big of an issue for RPGs not to have the DRM enforced- if I want to see a PDF copy of Game X, I'll just look at my buddies already printed copy, its easier than printing it myself. We can still play off the one book. Everyone wants to play Twilight, though, they can run the decks off freely and thats not too cool (cool that yes, peeps are playing, not cool I'm getting gyped out of a major investment).

As to printer screw ups, I already considered that. As RPGNow and others allow a couple of downloads in case of problems, these would allow the same if its a possibility. If not, then I'd have to bite the bullet on it and allow the unlimited prints. Last thing I'd want is folks to buy a totally useless file.

Nate, your copy protection scheme, whatever you decide to go with, will last exactly as long as it takes someone with the requisite skill and desire to circumvent it. All it takes is one person to crack the protection, and the files can then be distributed to anyone who wants them.

The key factor for you is whether anyone in your target audience is capable of breaking your protection and is willing to deal with the hassle of doing so.

Keep in mind, copy protection only inconveniences legitimate users. Professional pirates will not be deterred. Of course, the profit margin on a game product is probably not going to attract a professional. The casual hacker is the main concern for someone in your position. And, from my personal experience, the overlap between the gamer culture and hacker culture is significant.

As to Adobe in particular, the .pdf format is being broken and patched on a fairly regular basis.

I'd also wager the average Indie crew member though is more charitable in terms of paying for what they could get for free from Indie publishers.

I'm just exploring some options, seeing what could work and what wouldn't. As the title says, this is a grand experiment, to my knowledge there is no one else is doing a PDF CCG as I'm thinking of doing so with Twilight.

I'd wager you're right in the assumption. Where theres a will, theres a way. Thus, if this proves to be the case, take away their fun, make it a waste of time- make it unlimited prints.  ^_^ I'm evil like that ^_^

Here's the thing: anything can be cracked. DRM? Please... Already busted, broken, and basically worthless (worse, though, because it presents nothing more than an additional annoyance for the user, as mentioned).

If it goes into your machine, it can be gotten out, so if you are looking to control the number of printings of your product, you are basically out of luck. With enough work, which is often just downloading a tool off the internet and clicking a button, anyone interested in breaking the security can easily get past that protection.

So, with that in mind, here's the thing: you'll have to think outside the CCG scheme (ie: the "Collectible" part of that). to produce a card-based product for PDF/internet distribution.

I have to agree, as with anything else that floats across the internet any protection you put on your game can and will be cracked at some point. It's the sad truth of the internet. I would do LordSmerf's idea and work with theme decks, if you can work out enough themes for the decks then the amount of people that purchase them should outweigh the people that wil just print a gazillion copies and give them out.

So, it's pretty clear you shouldn't offer anything as a .pdf if you're not comfortable with the possibility (or probability) that it will be cracked and distributed for free.

Another thing to consider here is that there's a difference between printing a bunch of Avery business cards and running off a bunch of 8.5x11 pages. Most of the folks who would download and print illegal .pdf files are doing it because the want something for nothing. The paper doesn't cost that much, and most will probably print it at work or school anyway. Since a pack of perforated business cards costs around $10 for a pack of 25 sheets (250 cards), there's still some cost involved for the would-be pirate. Now, I haven't played your game, but let's assume the .pdf download has two 60-card decks. That's still $5 or so you have to pay for each set. Now, it's likely that folks will use the rest of the pack they bought to make another set (for backup, to give to a friend, etc.), but it's not really likely they'll go spend $50 and hand sets out to everyone they know.

One other very important thing to consider is the cost of printing materials.  If it is going to cost me more money to purchase your PDF, purchase the blank cards, and print them (not to mention the extra effort involved) than to purchase the cards straight then you're really not doing anyone a service.

I don't know if you've even gotten far enough into planning to know, but do you have any idea what the unit of sale would be (i.e. what are you buying at any given time) and what you would charge for it?

Thomas

If we're talking actual print, the game is already in print. Costs $8 per deck of 54 cards, 1 die and rule book. Around $2 shipping and handling, thats $10 per deck over the internet.

The PDF project on the other hand, would run about $5 for 2 PDF Decks (a playable set). WalMart still sells around 100 cards for $4-$5. For a per deck cost, thats $2.50 for the "deck", around $2 or $2.50 for the stock. Thats $4.50 to $5 per deck, almost half off a professionally printed deck.
Added value, such PDF purchases I'm also looking to including a 50% off certificate (with some way to submit and track legit sales) for a full, "real" deck. SO, for about $10 all total, you get a $24 value ($8 per deck ($16), $2 s/h per deck ($4), 50% off ($4)= $24)

I plan on supporting the PDF project if it takes, along with the print versions. Tournaments would allow the PDF business card decks, but you couldn't interchange them obviously.
If it doesn't, oh well. It's an experiment after all, the point of which is to see what I can do with it.

BTW, I hadn't counted on that, needing the business cards acting as a pirate deterant ^_^

First off I want to say that I really like this idea, and I really want it to work.  Now, one more thing to consider.  Most specialized printer "paper" (such as business card stock) requires some tweaking and tuning to get it aligned correctly with your printer.  Sometimes this is easy, sometimes it requires special software, sometimes that software is proprietary.

You are going to have to find some way to balance the need for things to be simple with the money.  If all it took to get a deck was paying you money, downloading the file, buying some cards, and sticking said cards in my printer, then I'm all for it.  If on the other hand I'll end up spending two hours messing around, wasting cards and ink, trying to get it to print right, I would have been better off just buying the deck at full cost...

Once again, I really want this to work.  I love business card sized cards, they're much easier to transport.  And I love the idea of being able to print up a couple of decks and try messing around with stuff.  But I don't love the idea of having to spend hours of my time just trying to get my cards printed.

Thomas

Thats the one thing I'm concerned with and have spent quite a bit of paper and ink of my own trying to make sure its not an issue. The best thing to do is make sure users know EXACTLY what card its formatted for, and arrange the cards so it falls enough within the parameters so a little off (which is a possibility) is only say a border edge, not half the text and picture, and is still useable.
I think I've got it there, I just need to see if I can get a few other people to run some printing tests, make sure I'm not just catering to my own system.
Printer issues though (Such as a printer that always prints crooked) I can't help, and may have to place a disclaimer ("If your printer is already malfunctioning, we recommend you do not print with that device. Save the file and print on a different, functioning, machine for best results.")

I want it that simple. Pay me, download the file, throw in the card stock and away you go. I want to do all the messing around with the printers so you don't have to ^_^

Hmmkay, Grand Experiment Phase #1 is nearing completion: the production of a PDF Collectable/Customizable card game with my adaptation of Twilight. Files go up tomorrow night for some preliminary print tests if anyone is interested in snagging a free pair of decks (though no coupon attached for that).
So, post is for a few reasons:

#1 - Anyone interested, I'll be posting the preview decks in either Game Design (and ask for some feedback gamewise) or Connections (just for checking the print settings)

#2 - What sites around are good for reviews, honest feedback, and what not? Who has had good experiances with what?

#3 - Who are the best shops around? RPGNow and Drive Thru seem best suited, Lulu probably not so as they're POD (and this needs special attention). Have also seen note of Indie Revolution around, whats the word on them?

#4 - I want to line this up right so that I have press releases, e-mails, and positions on these companies "New Release" sales and reviews pages almost similtaniously. Any idea on respective processing times for any of the above or suggested stores/reviewrs?