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Hi all

The rumours of my death were, as usual, quite exagerrated. I am still alive, and still working on my game, TMW:COTEC. When last we left your hero, he was working on the Game Concepts: Shared Play chapter, where he sets out the concepts for collaborative design focused sim-heavy roleplaying that the game is all about.

The most current draft PDF of that document can be found at this link
Game Concepts: Shared Play

So, i have layed out and explained the different Scripts players can use, along with expanded the various Guide role definitions. I still need to write up the Earning nomenar system bit here. A few things have come about out of this work so far.

After my deciding on the flow of Nomenar based on the use of Scripts, you have the Narrative Guide doing the GM type thing, without having to pay Nomenar for Casting or Narrative Scripts. Since any costs he paid he would add to his "Scene" pot. Which i am thinking the NG can add to his Anwa at the end of the Scene. Giving NG means to earn extra nomenar per Scene.

Casting and Narrative scripts are the key GM type activities, introducing Personae/Entities, and narrating events, exposition, and obstacles. Agent Scripts are the key 'player" activity, since they let players favor their Personae. Directing Scripts are a kind of Director stance meta-game carrot, providing an overt meta-game reward for going along with the "gm's" plot. Finally, Script Challenges, are the chief means of player input or cooperation, aside from the overtly collaborative way the NG's acceptance of player scripts works.

So far I see the game working well with the sim-heavy mechanics, as the Nomenar don't let you fiat outcomes particularly, you can instigate or incite things, but not dictate outcomes, outside of the agency favoring of in-game entities. This will tie into the Narrative Success system idea I came up with, that lets you declare Narrative Success for actions for which your Persona's Acting Score, minus the Narrative Success Number is greater than or equal to the Opposing Score. The Narrative Success Number is a dial that you set based on the Reality Rules.

When using Narrative Successes, you are limited by Script rules, which simply states that you can't perform an Act if your AS-NSN is not >= OS. I.e. it's not in the Script. As an adjunct, you can spend Nomenar to make any Action a Narrative Success by paying Nomenar equal to the Narrative Success Number.

The chief rewards are Payoffs for performing one of the Gang of Four guide roles, awarded from the Mithal at end of the Scene. Then there are Royalties for Designer Entities introduced into a Scene/Narrative, again from the Mithal. Next are Payoffs for meeting Personae Expectations (which are going to be stuff like kickers/bangs/Disadvantages/passions, chiefly Personae driven character intensive stuff etc. ) Then there are Payoffs from Narrative Expectations, external plot drivers from NG, as well as options for Genre Expectation type stuff, similar to Fang's Scattershot ideas. These will be tied into the Tenets designed by players during Genesis session. So game will be tailorable towards different play styles somewhat. Finally there are Player rewards, which are spontaneous appreciation rewards awarded by player nomination/group vote.

So my questions are, what do you think of the Shared PLay setup, any pitfalls or problems you see? I want the meta-game to be a major point of playing, but not overshadow actual play. Such that the Nomenar only need to come out when someone wants the direction of play to go a certain way, or to get to play with thier favorite toys. They also serve to reward cooperation and collaboration, and to encourage fun had by participants.

My only other question I still need to decide on is what happens if you are out of Nomenar. I was thinking that you shouldn't be able to make any Challenges while you are out of Nomenar, but maybe that is too harsh. Essentially, when you are out of Nomenar you are left to play along with what everyone else wants to happen, and your characters are left to deal with the luck of the dice and the harshness of the Reality rules. Any reccomendations or ideas on how to address this?



Thanks for you interest.

Suggestion: when you make long posts such as this, italize the important terms instead of Capitalizing. Makes it *much* easier to read.

Anyway, I enjoyed your post a lot. I find the shared play concepts very interesting.

Hi all

I have completed more work on the GC:Shared Play chapter, the PDF
of which can be found here
Game Concepts: Shared Play

I have described the various methods for earning Nomenar, which are Salaries, Royalties, Payoffs, and Awards, I have also come up with a "borrowing' concept which I call IOU's that I would like to know what people think of. Chief Idea is that you can borrow to introduce Scripts, but you can't use them to make Challenges. And anytime you do borrow, they can be used against you with any challenges you make.

I also added the idea of Storyboard Scripts which allow for narrative fiat for players, meaning that they can describe a set of events, actions, and outcomes that then become part of the Narrative.  These Storyboard Scripts, along with Casting, Agent, Narration,  and Director Scripts, and Script Challenges make up the explicit directorial/authorial language of the game. Everyone has equal access to this language because of the Nomenar economy, which drives toward collaboration, since your power/authority to direct and author the game is limited to your "wealth".

Because Storyboard Scripts essentially force all of the other player's into audience position, I made it very expensive to do within this system, not to mention subject to Challenges. This makes it so you won't be able to do it except with the consent of the other players.

This means you really won't be able to do the Auteur thing unless the other players dig your work. Essentially, you will want to count on your auteurship being so great that the other players support you with Play Awards. So what do you guys think of that concept, along with the other Scripts, and the Script mechanism itself.?

Oh yeah, I found that I had to bump my Narrative Success system (ripped off of WW's automatic success system, then multiplexed through my Reality Rules concepts (ripped off from DC Heroes and present in 2nd/3rd Ed shadowrun) to provide a objective means to handle outcome narration within the context of a traditional sim-heavy causaly focused rules system) up to a major rules system concept. I think it provides a good bridge between traditional simulative resolution system and more narrative, outcome based resolution systems.

Looks like my SGR theory position stuff, influenced by Fang's Scattershot gaming model, is seeping into the game. One interesting thing is that, much like Universalis, my game is a rather "Self-Conscious" affair (to use Fang's terms), because the Nomenar make this explicit. I will definitely have to address alot of this in this chapter, in the Genesis Session and Tenets section.

One consequence of an 'explicit language" game rules like TMW, and Fang's Scattershot, and Universalis, and many of the Forge inspired games is that it is so much easier to get what you want out of a game session. The games language makes expressing meaningful, entertaining, game action so much easier and fluid. since it has the easy to use "grammar and syntax" to deal with these higher level game concepts explicitly. Thus less time is spent thrashing about with the implied desires common to "traditional" RPG rules.

Anyway, enough of my noodling. If anyone has the time to read through what I have put together so far and has any concerns or questions as to issues you forsee, I'd appreciate your comments, and suggestions. Proclamations of my utter genius and the establishment of a school of Swedish roleplaying in my name are welcome too:)

Thanks

P.S. Thanks for your interest J. ;)

Thanks for the mention Rob,

One quick question...

Quote from: RobMuadibI have completed more work on the GC:Shared Play chapter, the PDF of which can be found here Game Concepts: Shared Play

...I have described the various methods for earning Nomenar, which are Salaries, Royalties, Payoffs, and Awards, I have also come up with a "borrowing' concept which I call IOU's that I would like to know what people think of. Chief Idea is that you can borrow to introduce Scripts, but you can't use them to make Challenges. And anytime you do borrow, they can be used against you with any challenges you make.

...Looks like my SGR theory position stuff, influenced by Fang's Scattershot Gaming Model, is seeping into the game. One interesting thing is that, much like Universalis, my game is a rather "Self-Conscious" affair (to use Fang's terms), because the Nomenar make this explicit. I will definitely have to address alot of this in this chapter, in the Genesis Session and Tenets section.

One consequence of an 'explicit language" game rules like TMW, and Fang's Scattershot, and Universalis, and many of the Forge inspired games is that it is so much easier to get what you want out of a game session....

These seem quite like the ones I've come up with in Combined Techniques: Genre Expectations and Experience Dice.

For example:

Nomenar = Experience Dice
Salaries = Keepers
Royalties = Freebies
Payoffs = Payback
Awards = Gimmies
IOU's = Loaners[/list:u]...or some similar arrangement.  You get the idea; was this incidental, accidental, or something you missed the attribution for?

Fang Langford

Fang

Hey, I have been cribbing ideas from both Scattershot and Universalis, as well as the kernel of the idea I stole from the old DC Heroes as well.

The whole Nomenar system grew out of some of the DC heroes hero points and RP awards concept. I simply took the idea that instead of rewarding the character, you reward the player, and adapted it to fit the collaborative design based nature. The idea of the economy of Nomenar was stolen from Universalis, lovingly passed down to it by Baron Munchausen I believe:) It is part of the explicit power sharing nature meant to drive the collaborative design concepts.

Salaries are from an early draft of Universalis, and an embodiment of the play is shared maxim, which was another major influence from your Scattershot documents, to which I added, the idea, that since it is shared, facilitating it for the other players should be rewarded.


In regards to your terms and your work, they certainly inspired my categories and have helped shape my thinking in setting up my own rewards system concept. Both Scattershot and Universalis are definitely major influences in my work, as well as bits from Rune, the Hero Points from DC heroes, along with it's Reality Rules concept, bits from Ars Magica and Aria, and my initial spark for the idea of the rewards go to the player concept, as opposed to being tied to an individual character.


So in short, I have definitely been comparing notes with your rather brilliant Scattershot work in developing my system, it will definitely be listed in my acknowledgments section, along with the many other games I mentioned above, as well as the Forge.

Sincerely