The Forge Archives

Well, I started selling the PDFs of my Kayfabe supplements and the new expanded edition.  The files ended up being pretty big, so I'm using an account system so buyers can download the PDFs directly from my site. They purchase the game with PayPal, I set up an account for them and email them their password.  Has nayone else used this method and have you had any problems with it?

On a side note.  I am offering a discount on the expanded edition for anyone that bought the original.  My only requirement is that people pay using the same PayPal account they used to buy the original. That way I can verify they actually bought it.  Am I opening a nasty can of worms with this?  I've already had one person order at the discount rate, and I can't verify their original purchase.  I felt like a jerk when I wrote back explaining the problem to them.

,Matt Gwinn

Password-protected access to downloads is a tried-and-true method of internet commerce, widely used in the porn industry among others.  I don't see any problems with your approach.

Matt,

Matt Snyder has a nice tool on his site that gives you your access code automatically after you make a purchase.  You might want to talk to him and see what he used.  I was very impressed by it.

Actually are you just giving them a password to a directory or are you in any way limiting the number of downloads or even tracking them?

It's extreamly easy to post a user account and password to a news group and have 1000's of people steal your product.

You should look at letting http://www.rpgnow.com handle the worries for you. Also note that only 25% of our sales are ever paypal- so you'll loose a lot of sales just for that reason (if they even find out about you in the frist place).

Or if you're a decent programmer and have PHP or something, try writing something that streams the file to someone's browser instead.

Anyway, best of luck. Really. The more PDFs the better!

James

QuoteActually are you just giving them a password to a directory or are you in any way limiting the number of downloads or even tracking them?

I give them an account and their own password. I also monitor the number of times they log in and how much data they download. If someone gave away their password I would know about it and could disable their account.

QuoteYou should look at letting http://www.rpgnow.com handle the worries for you.

I'm actually planning to arrange that at gencon

,Matt

I use the stated methiod of purchasing, I've been doing it for a year now, but with no real success. On the other hand I've done no advertising.

I have a system that uses php secure pages, paypal, and a php script that I wrote to let the member choose their username and password immediately. So far it's functional, but no takers. I'm trying to build a number of services around the game to make the ten dollar fee more enticing, but I've had no bites other than a few people I know personally.

If you have any success let me know. I'm hoping that getting involved in a few banner exchanges might help out. Let me know if you have success.

One of the biggest concepts startups seem to have grasping is that if people don't know where you are or who you are and you're out on an island by yourself, your chances of success are very small. You're a one man army and you have to promote promote promote... EGO's run strong in this industry and people want to do everything theirself as there isn't much money to go around... I can understand that, but it's really not the best thing to do.

Think about how much work it would take to get 100 people to even stop by and check your product description out? Give it to a mall store like RPGNow and that's automatically done within the first hour of your release. 1000 people within the first day. Then they can also buy from a trusted store they've done business with before. They can use a credit card which is actually 75% of our business. They can also pick up your product on a whim while picking up some other product they were waiting on... etc.

The logic behind a new publisher going it alone just doesn't make sense to me... not when there is a strong partner that only charges 20% (which means you probably pay about 15% more then you do now since paypal is taking a share).

Sorry if this sounds overly self promoting... but I really believe this and have countless case studies proving it.
James

I do think that the services you provide do help in this respect, James.

OTOH:

QuoteIt's extreamly easy to post a user account and password to a news group and have 1000's of people steal your product.

We're talking about a PDF file that's getting downloaded here. If a person is unscrupulous, they can simply post the PDF for distribution, or send it to others and that's less trackable than the original downloads if at all. With PDFs you have to assume that the consumers are honest to some extent. In fact the only reason to put a password on the files at all is to prevent casual theft by people who see unprotected material as theirs for the taking.

So I don't see the password method as being particularly troublesome in that regard.

But as you say, it can't hurt to have other, less piratable, sorts of sales as well, and the exposure you can provide is nice.

That said, and in the name of equal time, I believe that Clinton offers some similar services as well that might benefit some Indy designers.

Mike

I think in a enterprise that is almost completely based on vanity, the idea that the game creator wants to have control is understandable.

I know that I am an island to myself. I am resigned to that. I want to give a flavor to the consumer before they buy, but I especally want to be involved with the consumer after they buy. Having your own website facilitates that.

Maybe a mall of independantly hosted RPG websites. Something like a banner exchange, but more like a portal site. I like that idea. I feel a new topic coming on! I'll be out of town for four days, if somebody wants to start a topic about an RPG portal site and how many of us at the forge have their own site and would be interested, go ahead, but if not I'll start one when I get back.

Quote from: EmmettMaybe a mall of independantly hosted RPG websites. Something like a banner exchange, but more like a portal site.

The first time I got here on The Forge I was looking around for some portal page so I can take a look at all the indie games with websites of their own. That would be nice idea, I think. Some form of this is already on the "Resources" link above. Still a dedicated portal could be a nice thing. One with categorisation that's more appropriate to indie games. Maybe that portal can have G, N, and S ratings or something. Example entry: "The Riddle of Steel - G:2 N:4 S:5" -- but then we'll have to bug some of the more experienced folks around here (maybe Ron, hehe) to rate 'em. :o)

Edit: I've realised belatedly that with this post I've already gone beyond the scope of this thread. I'm going to place this one as a new thread up out front of the Publishing forum.

Quotebut I especally want to be involved with the consumer after they buy. Having your own website facilitates that.

James, do you have any way to provide your clients with a list of contacts? In any case, I'm pretty sure that you have space for people to get details about the games, right? Places to link to other sites, etc, as well? Seems to me that rpgmall doesn't suffer from comparison here, particularly.

Don, there's links to each company's site on the forum list page for Independent Games.

Mike

I'd have no problem setting up some sort of general publisher index if people were exclusive selling with us. The problem with have with a generic list is that many of our publishers (and those we don't sell) simply allow the user to buy from their site and avoid paying us any sort of comission for bringing them clients. We send a lot of money on marketing, in fact I'm bringing a full color catalog of products to GenCon to hand out to retailers. We are part of a large network and sister to many e-stores. So a major part of the value of working with us is exposure.

While half of me wants to setup an Indie index page the business half of me says that's not a good idea. Each publisher that does sell through us exclusive can link to their webpage under their product. But I could see a need for a more condenced list of INDIE links... what I could do is provide this for only the exclusive vendors. In fact, look for that later today on RPGMall and RPGNow.

As for what RPGMall (and RPGNow) offer the publisher/vendor, it's quite extensive. They can send mailings to past clients, they can create specialized coupons to intice people who have their products in their wish lists, they can see where customers are coming from and what sources generated particular orders. So there are plenty of ways for a publisher to stay "involved" with their customer before and after the sale.

James
http://www.rpgmall.com

How about if the site refered to did not offer the game for sale, but redirected back to your site. Then surely you could have no objections, right? Unless, you were worried about monitoring, or somesuch?

I mean if it's just informational content, then a link just makes a sale that much more likely for you, right?

Mike

Yes and no... I just spent an hour yesterday reviewing links at RPGNow and found 10 vendors linking to thier sites that sold the same PDFs (which is forbiden and even says so next to the field they use to do that)... so I don't really want to get into policing more sites.

I donno if people would want a general information site that didn't just link to their main websites. If I were to do something like that it wouldn't really be a portal and it only have BUY links to my sites.

It's probably better for someone else to run/manage the protal. I'll offer some help where I can to get the word out, but if I were to be in control of it and have to invest in maintaining it, it has to turn a profit. Sorry, that's just business. I'm not in this for the EGO.

James