[& Sword] Game Prep - Long

[ZenDog]

Hi I'm prepping (along with three players) for my first game of Sorcerer, which will be an & Sword game and PbP. The games taking part over at RPGnet, all the brainstorming is taking place in this thread...http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=272897


The setting is based on Celtic mythology, drawing inspiration from history and Myth and the 2000AD character Slaine and GURPS supplements.

As well as the Irish tradition we're also taking from the Welsh, Cornish, Breton, Gaul, Scottish and Pict traditions too, but not rather than playing in historical or Mythic Ireland/Britain or Slaine's version of Tir Nan Og the setting will be a place of our own creation (a Newhon type of vibe).

The setting details are.. Lots of green rolling hills, breathtaking valleys and black mountains, lakes and lochs, fast running rivers bursting with salmon and grey pebble beaches, hill forts, Brocks and round houses, burial mounds, dolmen, standing stones and the mysterious glass towers, dark, dark forests and rain. Lots of rain.

looks kinda like this

adn the heroes might look something like this...

Demons, are the Fomori (Immanent; Old Ones, Pagan Things and Beasts) Most of The Sidhe (Old Ones) and the Tuatha de Danaan (True Demons).

There's this from Rolleston as well...

The Danaans after the Milesian Conquest

THE kings and heroes of the Milesian race now fill the foreground of the stage in Irish legendary history. But, as we have indicated, the Danaan divinities are by no means forgotten. The fairyland in which they dwell is ordinarily inaccessible to mortals, yet it is ever near at hand; the invisible barriers may be, and often are, crossed by mortal men, and the Danaans themselves frequently come forth from them; mortals may win brides of Faery who mysteriously leave them after a while, and women bear glorious children of supernatural fatherhood. Yet whatever the Danaans may have been in the original pre-Christian conceptions of the Celtic Irish, it would be a mistake to suppose that they figure in the legends, as these have now come down to us, in the light of gods as we understand this term. They are for the most part radiantly beautiful, they are immortal (with limitations), and they wield mysterious powers of sorcery and enchantment. But no sort of moral governance of the world is ever for a moment ascribed to them, nor (in the bardic literature) is any act of worship paid to them. They do not die naturally, but they can be slain both by each other and by mortals, and on the whole the mortal race is the stronger. Their strength when they come into conflict (as frequently happens) with men lies in stratagem and illusion; when the issue can be fairly knit between the rival powers it is the human that conquers. The early kings and heroes of the Milesian race are, indeed, often represented as so mightily endowed with supernatural power that it is impossible to draw a clear distinction between them and the People of Dana in this respect.

A few other true Demons we have discussed are the Enchanter who makes sons from his organs that act as one man (Spawn?) and a preserved head that talks.

Sorcery is a bit sketchy at the moment, there will be lots of rituals, riddles, triads and probably cauldron's but it we're leaning towards it being more of a naive's setting/game.
Here's what I do have on sorcerers so far...On Sorcerers in this setting I was thinking probably the druid's (Adept's or apprentice) would be the only Coven, with the odd lone hag possibly as another type of sorcerer (Lore 3+) Shape shifters are there to be found in the source material (Lore 2-3) The naive Warrior Hero (Lore 1-2)

On humanity we'd got as far as honour and talked about reputation then...

Was reading GURPS Celtic Myth and found this cool (sic) quote.

"A man lives after his life, but not after his honour." - Fin Mac Cool

It also talks about Celts and personal honour and it's three virtues of hospitality, generosity and bravery, which reminded me about the Celts obsession with everything in threes. Also, it talks about personal honour coming above tribal and even family loyalty, and also the aspect of vengeance in honour, about it might be too late to prevent an insult but it's never too late to avenge one.

So, if we take Humanity as personal honour, then being inhospitable, mean, or cowardly, accepting, or allowing an insult is a humanity check?, being hospitable generous, and brave are humanity gains? As is avenging an insult? Humanity 0 means you're without honour and everyone knows it?

So, with this Humanity definition the premise of the game might be "How far would you go and what would you do to protect your personal honour?"

I think this does have something to do with reputation as well (although not as dual Humanity perhaps). You're protecting your personal honour and your idea of that is internal, it's about your "self" but in the context of how others see you so maybe it's not about humanity checks when you do something cowardly, but rather humanity check when you murder your friend because he (and only he) knows you did something cowardly?

Which is still a bit vague and I'm not sure if the which version works (if either).

Finally I have a few descriptors for Stamina and Past...

Descriptors

Stamina

Roaring Brawler – A taste for mead, a short temper and two iron fists.

Spear Dancer – I laugh at my enemies as I dance on the hafts of their spears.

Cattle Raider – If you steal a man's cattle you best be swift of foot boy.

Sky Clad – You fear no harm or feel no hurt nor rain or sleet or snow.

Hero – With sword, spear and with axe, on foot, horseback or from your chariot you are a warrior born.

Past

Charioteer – As a youth I held the reins for a mighty Hero

Fianna – I am member of the warband and have passed the threefold test.

Noble – I am Daffyd ap Owain ap Pwyll ap Beli Mawr and I can sing the song of my ancestry back through the ages to the kings and gods whose blood runs true in my veins.

Sidhe Raised – I lived among the Sidhe for three days and three nights and though I was a child when I entered their kingdom I left a man and when I came home all the people of my tribe were longsince gone to the ancestors.

The Three Branches -

Bard – I have passed my ordeal and wear the tonsure and the seven colours, and am master of the triads.

Ollivate – Duty is my name for I am priest to the people.

Druid – I am a brother of the oak and master of all the branches of the tree of knowledge.

I wouldn't mind some feedback on our Humanity definition, which version works best (if either) and the premise and descriptors but my main reason for posting was to talk about  prep, Sorcerer and Sorcerer and Sword.

There seems to be a lot of game prep for Sorcerer (especially compared to my other gaming preference Savage Worlds) and it's quite intense prep too (it seems you can't read a good Sorcerer thread here without finding links to three more, not that I'm complaining, I just found out I'd been getting the dice mechanic wrong yesterday, and I've had the books for a year or more now. Thing is I'm really enjoying it. I've not enjoyed prepping a game this much in ages. Two of the things I'm really enjoying are one, the back and forth between me and the players as we riff of ideas and flesh out the setting, Demons, Sorcery, etc. and the way the prep has sent me into the source material, reading, rereading and getting inspired.

The other fun thing about this game is that we're all in the position of having purchased Sorcerer and Sorcerer & Sword, read them, and never played. We're all rereading them at the moment too.

Hmm, that's about it, except to say, I don't know what it is, I can't put my finger on it but there is something about & Sword, that just sings to me.

Once we've finished thrashing everything out I'll post a One Sheet here.

Cheers,

Lee

[ZenDog]

Ok, here's a more or less finished list of discriptors, I've had some input from Paka at RPGnet and he came up with the Vengeful and two Fostered child descriptors which are all very cool.

Descriptors

Stamina

Roaring Brawler – A taste for mead, a short temper and two iron fists.

Spear Dancer – I laugh at my enemies as I dance on the hafts of their spears.

Cattle Raider – If you steal a man's cattle you best be swift of foot boy.

Sky Clad – You fear no harm or feel no hurt nor rain or sleet or snow.

Hero – With sword, spear and with axe, on foot, horseback or from your chariot you are a warrior born.

Fostered Child - you were sent away to a foreign land in order to keep peace and you have returned home with the stink of a foreigner all about you.

Will

Vengeful – Only blood can make the wrongs done to you and yours right, rivers of blood

Blessed by Lugh - (Leader of Men) Everyone loves you.

Geas – You'll stick to it, even if it kills you.

Guest of Arawn – Sometime in your past you found yourself in the underworld and have never been quite the same.

Vain Glorious – You are the best of all men and you don't mind who knows it.

Fostered Child - you were taken away to the twilight lands as a babe and know their trickery and deceipt.

Lore

Changeling – as book

Fomori/Sidhe Get – (Lore 2+) The blood of the others runs in your veins.

Druid Taught – (Lore 1+) You trained as an Initiate but were never destined to be a Brother of the Oak

Initiate (Lore 2+)

Bard – (Lore 3+)

Ollovate – (Lore 4+)

Druid – (Lore 5+)

Witch – (Lore 3+)

Past

Charioteer – As a youth I held the reins for a mighty Hero

Fianna – I am member of the warband and have passed the threefold test.

Noble – I am Daffyd ap Owain ap Pwyll ap Beli Mawr and I can sing the song of my ancestry back through the ages to the kings and gods whose blood runs true in my veins.

Sidhe Raised – I lived among the Sidhe for three days and three nights and though I was a child when I entered their kingdom I left a man and when I came home all the people of my tribe were long since gone to the ancestors.

The Three Branches -

Bard – I have passed my ordeal and wear the tonsure and the seven colours, and am master of the triads.

Ollivate – Duty is my name for I am priest to the people.

Druid – I am a brother of the oak and master of all the branches of the tree of knowledge.

Reaver – From cliff, coast, islet, or river mouth, the sight of your sleek black sailed ships turns mens bowels to water.

Price/Flaw

Fomori blood – You are tainted by Fomori blood and it's there for all to see (Scales/gills/ other deformity).

Melancholy  – You just weren't meant to be happy or you just don't want to be.

[James_Nostack]

First: that stuff is awesomely colorful.  Like, whoa.  Nice, nice job there.

Secondly: Having just run two games using "honor" as humanity, more or less along the lines you described, I gotta say--it didn't work very well for me.  I think Humanity has to be something juicy and squirmy for you right now, not you the historian, or you the RPG player.  "Honor" is something we can appreciate, but at one remove.

What about something like, Innocence or Joy or something?  (Some kinds of Fey might be "angels" game mechanically?)  I don't quite know if that's genre-appropriate.

[Lisa Padol]

I love it. Good descriptors.

Not sure what to tell you about Humanity, as that was one of my problems. It definitely should not feel squishy. The honor idea feels "almost there" to me.

What you don't want is for a player to say, "Well, if's personal honor, how my PC feels, and my PC feels okay about this." Or even the other way around. As I understand it, you shouldn't have to figure it out. If there's figuring it out involved, it's the wrong definition.

Hm. How does this sound: Go by the rules of society, with specifc things that define honor. If you break these, you risk being outside the pale. And, after all, most Celtic heroes wind up in that position in the stories. Cuchulain has a choice between breaking the Do Not Break a Taboo rule one way and breaking it another way -- he is offered dog meat when he must not refuse hospitality or eat a dog (as he is named the Hound, if I recall correctly). (Then again, Cuchulain may be part demon himself. Certainly, after killing the dog that would have eaten him, he made up for it by being its owner's watchdog for a year and a day.)

-Lisa Padol

[ZenDog]

Hey thanks for the input peeps, much appreciated.

James, I've noticed that honour does tend to pop up a lot in games, especially first games (this will be our first game) but I think we have a good handle on it, which I shouyld explain...

Lisa, I didn't explain myself, we're kinda already going in the direction you suggested. I'm reading Cu Culained at the moment and that boy is either a powerful demon or a sorcere with lots of demons.  It's personal honour but not so much the PC's undefined personal honour, it's personal honour as defined by the Celts, meaning all the things that were important to the heroes and their reputations.

The key things are hospitality, generosity, bravery and  brooking no insults. Doing things that will get you a rep for being inhospitable, mean, and cowardly or accepting an insult are all humanity losers. I think in the Celtic world it was just as important how you followed the rules of hospitality and gift giving.  Begrudgingly hosting someone or blatantly making it obvious you're not happy to do so could lose humanity the same as refusing to host someone. Humanity gains are when you are brave, hospitable and generous (more so if you do it spontaneously rather than out of social pressure) and take your vengence on those that insult you.

Our premise (provisonally) is "what would you do, how far would you go to protect your personal honour?"

Does that sound workable?

[James_Nostack]

Lee, those were the almost exact Honor behaviors I used in my games.  I'm just letting you know that it didn't quite work for us.  I don't know why, exactly.  Certainly one factor was my ineptitude.  (Lesson learned: do lots of prep.  And also, it's possible that Sorcerer is one of those games you have to learn to GM through lots of practice.)  But also, I suspect "honor," even when made concrete through the behaviors you mentioned, just isn't visceral enough.  It's easy to role-play caring about it ("I understand why it's important to the Celts"), but it's hard to care about it for its own sake.

I guess the question might be - what's analogous to honor in modern life?  Can that work instead?

[ZenDog]

James, I meant to say in my last reply that the idea of squishy Humanity definitions is interesting, perhaps worth a thread of its own? However, I'm not sure I'd be able to apply it to a)my very first game, that is b) pbp and c) with people I don't really know yet (in as much as you get to know anyone online).

Then again, even if I played with friends not sure we'd be able to agree on anything we all felt squishy on (that we'd actually want to play). One man's squishy is anothers so what.

Cheers,

Lee.