The book and the PDF

[rafael]

So I'm still not sure how long Dread will be when published, or how, exactly, it will be bound.  However, I have made up my mind about one thing.  Kinda.

Dread will be sold as a book, and will be shipped with a disk in a jewel case (with a nice color label on the disk, and in the jewel case, as well).

On the disk, a truckload of PDFs.  An introduction to role-playing, the history of the yada-yada cult, a few adventure scenarios.  I'm thinking that it'll probably amount to a hundred pages, maybe more.  I'm not sure yet.  Working on it, you know?

So has anyone else ever heard of this kind of publishing?  Anybody else known of someone who rolled up with this kind of one-two combo?

-- Rafael

[Jared A. Sorensen]

So has anyone else ever heard of this kind of publishing?  Anybody else known of someone who rolled up with this kind of one-two combo?

-- Rafael

Seems to me you'd be better off padding yer book with those 100 or so pages. You can jack up the price, attract more retailer attention and rape the public in style.

And yeah, actually I'm quite serious. :) That CD full of PDF material is pretty darn useless when the book is on the shelf of the game store. Why NOT include it as part of the book?

[rafael]

Good question, Jared.

For starters, it's not going to be on the store shelves anytime soon.  Maybe next year.  At this point, it'll be available via the site (well, there are a number of FLGSs that will carry it on a very reasonable consignment, just to see how it works out, but I'd wager most sales will be from the site).

But, frankly, it's cheaper to do it this way.  And that means that the game will be cheaper, too.

-- Rafael

[Paul Czege]

Hey Rafael,

I don't want to discourage you, but I think you'll find that the book + CD idea is actually a dramatically more expensive proposition than just printing your extra hundred pages in the book. The reason is that the expensive part of the book is the binding and cover. You can throw in an extra hundred pages for less than it would cost you to burn the CD's.

You can get 1800 pages into a book if you're willing to go with paper the weight of phonebook pages. Only if you were talking about a book that was pushing that limit, where the binding couldn't support more pages, or if you couldn't bring yourself to go with thinner paper to support your high page count, would it maybe make sense to put additional material on CD. Or if you had animations or sound effects or something you wanted on the CD that aren't printable content. A hundred pages is nothing.

Additionally, a two piece product like you're describing is, I believe, called a "kit" in the publishing industry. That means it has to be assembled by someone, either by you getting the CD's to the printer so they can do the assembly, or by someone at the warehouse, and that costs you money.

And there are reasons publishers of computer reference books glue the CD's into them. If you go with the jewel box angle, when they assemble the kit, they'll have to shrink-wrap the thing together. That means customers in stores can't flip through the book. And it means each unit is a strange, irregular size that doesn't pack, shelve, or display easily, which irritates everyone who has to deal with it. And you know what...they don't have to deal with it. Distributors and retailers don't have to re-order it. You could solve this by packaging everything in a custom box. But that costs you more, and still your customers can't flip through the book.

I know you're only trying to do something cool. I'm just warning you, the system is set up to dramatically discourage non-standard cool.

Paul

[Matt Gwinn]

I think it would be a better idea if you made the PDFs available at your site as free downloads.  Don't put them all up at once though.  Add them a few at a time so people keep coming back to your site to see what kind of new stuff you're producing.

One problem I see with including a CD with the game is that stores will likely shrink wrap them together, making it impossible for people to look at your game's content.

,Matt G.

[rafael]

Hey, guys.  Thanks for the feedback.  Very cool.


Paul --

You can throw in an extra hundred pages for less than it would cost you to burn the CD's.

Hmm.  Actually, the CDs cost about $0.30 each.  I'm not sure that throwing a hundred pages into the book would be cheaper than that.  I mean, burning them is free (I already own the burner), and the labels are relatively inexpensive (get 'em at Wal-Mart).  Jewel cases, I get in bulk, and they're pretty cheap, too.

Been getting quotes from printers, and that extra couple hundred pages will definitely set me back a few bills, believe it.

That means it has to be assembled by someone, either by you getting the CD's to the printer so they can do the assembly, or by someone at the warehouse, and that costs you money.

Hmm.  I think you're visualizing a larger print run than I am.  My version features me sitting at my computer, burning the disk, sticking it in the jewel case, and tucking it into a padded envelope with the rulebook.

That means customers in stores can't flip through the book. And it means each unit is a strange, irregular size that doesn't pack, shelve, or display easily, which irritates everyone who has to deal with it.

Ah, I understand.  Yeah, unfortunately, it's not going to be on the store shelves anytime soon.  No distributors, no retailers, nothing like that.  Not yet.


Matt --

I think it would be a better idea if you made the PDFs available at your site as free downloads.

There will be free downloads, but these won't be vital to the game (like the section on cults, or the backstory).  The free downloads will be things like scenarios, maps, new monsters, and the like.

Thanks again, dudes.

-- Rafael

[Eugene Zee]

Raphael,

If you are willing to deal with the challenges of the kind of project that you are talking about, I say, more power to you.  However, just make sure you really understand what is involved.

If you are going to have the books printed and shipped to your house you will need to have a place to store them.  Unless you are planning to print only a few hundred.  Which sounds like it is pretty close to the case, if you are hand stuffing the CDs.  Also keep in mind, the cost to professionally print a few hundred books is very likely going to be prohibitively expensive, per piece.

Next you need to send all those books to distributors, retailers or your sales organization.  Personal shipping cost, again.  If you are selling the book yourself you will need a whole lot of time to contact the many, many distributors or, even worse, retailers and convince them that this is the book they should buy.  If not you will need to give a percentage of revenue to your sales organization to handle this, further shrinking your bottom line.  If you are going to sell directly to the public on your website you will need to have a lot of space to store those books and keep track of your sales, not to mention a whole host of issues with e-commerce sites.

If I may ask a few questions,

After your customers buy the book can you include information for them to order/receive your CD in the mail separately?

Can you sell the CD separately as an supplement? (probably challenging in and of itself but maybe on an pdf site it could work)

It sounds like a novel idea to combine the two but you might want to tinker with the plan to make sure that you are not risking a lot of time, money and your game's success.

Good Luck!

[Clay]

Raphael, I gotta chip in with these guys here.  The advantage of a PDF is that it isn't physical media. The places where PDF files make sense is when you're distributing via a low cost distribution channel such as the internet, or when you're trying to avoid a printed product completely, such as with software manuals.  You're describing the exact opposite of where PDFs make the most sense.

You'll notice that most books which contain a CD, the CD contains information that can't be presented easily in a book.  Wizards of the Coast distributed a slick looking character generation program on CD with their latest edition of Dungeons and Dragons.  That couldn't have been done on the printed page, so it made sense.  Lots of computer books do the same thing to distribute utility programs discussed in the book.

If the contents of the CD are essential to the game, I say put them in the book, or into a supplement.  If they aren't, talk to Clinton Nixon about getting a low-maintenance web site and distribute the material from there.

You -don't- want to try handling your own order fulfillment.  and there isn't any business advantage to burning the CDs and tipping them in yourself. That can all be done better and more affordably by someone who specializes in it. Work with your printer on this one; they'll have someone they recommend.  Wizard's attic has a nice list of resources you can start with.

[rafael]

Eugene --

If you are willing to deal with the challenges of the kind of project that you are talking about, I say, more power to you.

Thanks, man.

If you are going to have the books printed and shipped to your house you will need to have a place to store them.

Yeah.  Back in the day, me and some people started up a magazine.  I was founder and president.  Also did marketing, distribution, layout, worked with the printers, yada yada.  It was fun.  We had a circulation in the thousands.  And you'd be surprised how many books you can fit into a box.  What I'm going to do with this game will probably fit in my closet.  And I don't know about shipping; the printer's maybe twenty minutes from my house.

Also keep in mind, the cost to professionally print a few hundred books is very likely going to be prohibitively expensive, per piece.

It's actually not prohibitive.  I'll probably break even.  Might turn a profit.

Next you need to send all those books to distributors, retailers or your sales organization.

There will be no distribution.  No retailers.  No sales organization.

If you are going to sell directly to the public on your website you will need to have a lot of space to store those books and keep track of your sales, not to mention a whole host of issues with e-commerce sites.

Like I said, won't take up too much space.  I think sales tracking and Paypal maintenance will be okay.

After your customers buy the book can you include information for them to order/receive your CD in the mail separately?

Yeah, that's definitely possible.

Can you sell the CD separately as an supplement?

Thought about it.  Might sell sourcebooks as PDFs, burned on CDs, but that's later.  If I do that, I figure I could sell 'em for a couple bucks apiece, still come out ahead.  But that's later in the year.

Good Luck!

Thanks again, chief.


Clay --

You're describing the exact opposite of where PDFs make the most sense.

Maybe.  Then again, you spend X bucks on some game book, right?  You get it in the mail.  And damned if they didn't throw in a disk with like six or seven adventure scenarios, tips on how to play the game, all that stuff.  Didn't cost you anything.  Does that work for you as a consumer?  Make sense as a marketing/promotional tool?

You -don't- want to try handling your own order fulfillment.

Well... Yeah.  I do.  I'm not a pessimist, but I really doubt that my order fulfillment's going to number in the high thousands.  I mean, if things pick up, and it does well, and I start getting flooded with orders, I'll reconsider.  Recruit my girlfriend or something.  But I don't see that happening right away.  In time, in time.

And there isn't any business advantage to burning the CDs and tipping them in yourself.

Well, like I said, I think that it's always good when you get a little something extra with your purchase.  Say you buy a music CD, take it home, find out there's additional content on the disk, and you can watch a music video or interview on your computer.  The CD wasn't more expensive or anything, they just threw it on there.  So I'm talking about that kind of thing.  Won't cost me much at all, and it might just make someone's game experience a little better.  Figure that's enough.

Hey, thanks for the comments and questions, gentlemen.

[Valamir]

Hey DG, glad to see you trying something different.  No one can really say for sure what works and doesn't work till someone decides to risk taking it on the chin and giving it a shot.

So kudos for that, and be sure to keep us posted on the successes and tribulations.  If nothing else, it'll make a good data point.

[pigames]

Hey deadguy, what's up?

As a consumer, I wouldn't want to spend money on a book and get a CD which needs printing. I remember when I bought the WOTC D&D and saw a CD inside. I thought, "cool!" When I checked it out, I realized that it was crap. I'm not saying that yours is, but I've been burnt too many times by gimmicks like that. I don't know if anyone else feels like me, but I think I look forward to having everything that was intended to ship together be printed. All materials provided as an afterthought (or errata) I wouldn't mind downloading.

On the other hand:

As a publisher, I wouldn't want to add pages to my book, making it more expensive. Tough decision. We (www.pigames.net) are releasing a pdf next month and printing two games this fall. I'm becoming infatuated with pdf's and may choose that direction for the smaller one. No need to spend money (and potentially make less profit on printing) on shorter books. We'll see.


Well, whatever you decide, I wish you luck.

Brett Bernstein
www.pigames.net