RPG Vanity Press (split from RPG publishing in 'zine format)

[ethan_greer]

Over in this thread I'm talking about my imminent forray into RPG publishing.  This here thread is to talk about that sales thing.  In composing my reply to Andy who said,

What are your thoughts on the matter?  Have you considered the value of going with Tundra vs RPGNow at all?

I came up with this, which I decided to pull out of that thread and make a new one:

It occurs to me that I'd actually rather not be terribly profitable as an RPG publisher.  I have a full-time job that I have no intention of leaving, having kids is looming on the horizon, and I just don't want to take the time required to be a full-on dedicated game company in addition to all my other stuff.  I just want to make games, print them cheaply, and sell a few copies to folks.  I have no illusions about doing much better than breaking even in this venture, and I'm not terribly bothered by the idea of losing money.  With the sort of printing I'm talking about, my up-front costs are going to be chump change.  I also have little interest in becoming a corporation or game company at this time for tax reasons.  Ideally, the sales would cover the costs for the art and the printing and leave me without the need to file extra income taxes.  So why am I getting into for-sale publishing?  Well, I enjoy making games, and I'm particularly pleased with my latest, and I want to create a more tangible product than just publishing to the web as I've done in the past.

So.  I guess it would seem that Tundra Sales Organization is probably out, since I don't want to pay for their services.  And RPGMall is out, too, since I don't want to pay for their services either.  And talking about getting into standard distribution is a joke for a guy like me.  Which leads me to the conclusion that I'm going to be a vanity press RPG publisher.

Any thoughts or reactions?

[Matt Snyder]

Uh, Ethan, how about, "Welcome to the club." I can pretty much copy-and-paste your concerns and make my own post. I'm in the hobby; I'm not in the industry. Maybe that'll change some day. Maybe not.

There is nothing preventing you from doing what you're suggesting, and I don't think there's anyone who can convince you otherwise. Are you looking for affirmation? You'll get it from me. But you don't need it. Do what you want. Make fun games. That's enough.

Are you feeling like you "should" be doing more? If so, I can understand. But keep in mind, the Forge community "expects" nothing of you. Nor does it look down on you. If individuals do that, so what.

[HinterWelt]

Ethan-
RPGMall does not charge you a fee unless they changed it recently. They take 40% of each sale. That is a pretty good deal for the traffic the sight gets and very low hassel. They provide POD services (which I have not partaken of) but will also take product you ship to them. I suggest you check them out as breaking even in this industry is tougher than you might think...
Bill

[ethan_greer]

Hi Matt, thanks for the reality check.  I'm not really looking for affirmation, although I can see how that might be construed.  It was more of just me hammering through some thoughts  and getting to a point where I realized that I don't actually give a crap about making money as a game designer/publisher.  This kinda seemed weird to me, so I decided to share my personal revelations.  :)  Thanks for the unsolicited affirmation, though.  :)  And I agree that you're right - I don't need affirmation, or anything of the kind.  And it's not a concern of people looking down at me, either here at the Forge or elsewhere.  So yeah, I guess to a lot of people here I'm preaching to the choir.  The line of thinking is all sorta new to me, though, y'know?  I have several friends who are all about getting into the industry, and all that, and forming companies, etc. and that's fine.  It's just not for me.

[ethan_greer]

Bill, 40% of sale price is still a fee - it's just not an up-front fee.  Whether or not it's a good deal (and I think it is), I'm not inclined to pursue it at this time.  Sorry James.  :)  Maybe my opinion on the matter will change when I have a box of books that I want to get rid of...

[HinterWelt]

Ethan-
No problem. I am not shilling for RPGMall I just misunderstood your definition of fee. To me a fee is something out of my pocket. Offering a consignment where I compensate a merchant with a percentage of my MSRP is something else entirely. But I can appreciate not wanting to charge more than you have to for a product in order to make up the difference.

Good Luck,
Bill

[Hardpoint]

I applaud you Ethan for sticking to your "baby". I too am creating my own RPG and if I had to print 1000 copies and sit with each of them in my house, while my wife would kill me, at least I'd have it printed and could give it away if I wanted to.

Obviously that is not sound business, but as a labor of love, who cares what you do with it as long as you are satisfied with the final outcome, right? If you get out of it what you wanted to, be that a return on your investment or simply bragging rights, you accomplished more than 1000 other guys have. I for one salute you and wish you well.

I'm finishing and printing mine simply to have a finished product in my hands when I run my own game. I'm gonna run the game anyway, so why not have a professionally complete version.