Chain Shirt w/o sleeves and sleeves

[bergh]

Chain Shirt w/o sleeves and sleeves

OK first: how long are sleeves? middel of the upper arm of the the hands?

And w/o sleeves, does that means that it dont protect the shoulders.


I would hope that someday there would be more indepth rules for armour, how to combine it and what they cover and such....

[toli]

I always assumed the chain shirt w/o sleeves covered the shoulder and part of the upper arm.  Sort of a T-shirt.  With sleeves, would cover to the wrist.

But really you can do anything you want.  You could make it a more Roman or Celtic looking shirt where it doesn't cover as much of the upper arm.

NT

[bergh]

Thanks for answering.

I still think that the armour table in TROS is a bit rusty in the edges, its simply not detailed enough, but then again making something up yourself no problem...but some great illustrations would help i think.

Does anyone know where to find/have some good drawings of armours?

[Ingenious]

In regards to pictures and so forth.. just come up with the armor coverage on your own. Use the damage tables in the back of the book in conjunction with these two pictures here:
http://www.geocities.com/coryvigdal/
IMO, sleeveless chain is easy.
It covers areas 3 and 4 for swinging/bludeoning..
and areas 11 and 12 for thrusting AND dependant on the length of the chain shirt.. possibly the groin(area 10)

Where-as chain with sleeves covers all of the above zones,
plus zone 7 for swung attacks and zone 14 for thrusting.
If you really wanted to get nitpicky, you can cross-reference the damage table as previously mentioned as you might find that for certain d6 rolls in specific target zones (for example zone 7, the arms)..
that on a 5 or a 6 hits the upper arm/shoulder. For purity's sake let's say that 6 is the shoulder and a 5 is the upper arm.. so there might or might not be armor there.
Decide for yourself.

-Ingenious

[Tash]

http://www.myarmoury.com/

Wonderful site for info on various weapons and armor, replicas and museum peices.  Lots of pictures as well.

[Brian Leybourne]

Yeah, take no sleeves to mean that it's essentially like a t-shirt (covers the shoulder but not the upper arm, elbow, lower arm, wrist or hand), and long sleeved like a sweater, covering everything down to the wrist.

I would hope that someday there would be more indepth rules for armour, how to combine it and what they cover and such....

We've done a lot of work creating updated armor rules for TFOB, including shaded coverage diagrams for everything, so you'll know exactly what they protect and what they don't. In the meantime, looking up an internet picture resource isn't a bad idea for coverage ideas, as others have suggested.

Brian.

[bergh]

Hi Brian

"updated armor rules for TFOB, including shaded coverage diagrams for everything"

ARGH this is what i need!!!!!!!! I NEED TFOB....I can't wait...give it to me NOW! how many gold pieces do you want?

[Edge]

As far as armour coverages go we are very flexible in our games.  We pretty much allow players to describe their armour any way they like and this in turn details what it covers.  This works in our games as our players generally wear armour that fits into the character not necessarily what offers the most protection

[Malechi]

I think it may have been mentioned before but the Harnmaster rules has a very comprehensive set of armour rules.  Its available free at the moment so grab it anyways.  Just take the descriptions and the body diagrams (sounds similar to the new "armour shading" diagrams from TFoB) and port them across for now.

Edge is right though, flexibility is much easier.  One question I have had though, is the front/rear thing.  With piecemeal armour, do greaves for instance cover your calves? or just your shins? same for vambrace i guess.  i know facing isn't an issue in TROS just wondering if anyone else had any thoughts on hitting locations not immediately obvious like the backs of legs or undersides of arms.  Or do you think this is modelled sufficiently already?

cheers

Jason K.

[Richard_Strey]

Hi. I realise this might come across a bit undiplomatic, but I find this worth saying after reading a lot of this kind of posts lately. It seems to me some of you need to be taken by the hand and walked through the game, i.e. you seem to accept only input that is given in TROS material or, at most, in other systems like Harn.

Why, I ask you?

Back then when we started Shadowrun, everyone was forced to use the same handful of guns, because there were almost no supplements out. So we went to check the web for sites on guns and used those. Just stick appropritate stats on them and off you go. Who cares if my assault rifle has the same stats as the one in the book, as long as I can go on bragging about the cool looks, customized handle or whatever?
When we played Vampire the Maskerade, people started to ask me what all kinds of gear cost. If I knew, I told them. If I didn't, I had them look in the appropriate catalog or go downtown to find out. Problem solved.

So, regarding TROS, I can't see why I would *need* a book to give me all the armor stats. I'm looking forward to TFOB, sure, but I don't *need* it to find out what area a given armor covers. My Armoury, as mentioned above, is great for this. Loads of armor and weapon pictures. You can actually see for yourself what area a piece covers, as virtually any piece was unique back then. The weapon comparison tool lets you line up weapons to see their relative reach.

All I'm trying to say is, I guess, get creative in your quest for source material. It is out there. Thanks for your time.

[ZenDog]

Greaves as far as I know (I'm not an expert) only cover the shin, not the calf.  Vambraces I think wrap around the forearm completely.

I think it also depends on the greaves. When I think of greaves I think of the Greek Panapoly, however if they are greaves from a set of medieval plate then they would cover shin and calf.

I'm also not an expert on RoS rules (relative Newb) but if it hasn't already been done I would think it would be easy enough to houserule if one of your player wanted to specificaly try for parts of the body not covered/gaps/weakness in the armour.

It just occured to me if you use the 'Hook' manouvre on someone wearing Greek/Roman greaves that could give em a nasty gash on the calf.

[toli]

Greaves as far as I know (I'm not an expert) only cover the shin, not the calf.  Vambraces I think wrap around the forearm completely.

I think it also depends on the greaves. When I think of greaves I think of the Greek Panapoly, however if they are greaves from a set of medieval plate then they would cover shin and calf.

Greaves from full medieval plate would cover the shin and calf.  Greek greaves probably would as well.  The ones I've seen in museums etc, wrapped around the calf and held themselves in place.

[toli]

...It seems to me some of you need to be taken by the hand and walked through the game, i.e. you seem to accept only input that is given in TROS material...

While I generally agree with your comment, I think there is some level (certainly for me) of having other people give a general level of acceptance to a rule one has proposed.  It certainly isn't difficult to decide what areas a chain shirt would cover, but the general concurrence of the people in the forum or from forthcoming rules is nice.

NT

[ZenDog]

Apart from enjoying this sort of discourse, you can learn stuff too.

Cheers toli :D

[Richard_Strey]

While I generally agree with your comment, I think there is some level (certainly for me) of having other people give a general level of acceptance to a rule one has proposed.  It certainly isn't difficult to decide what areas a chain shirt would cover, but the general concurrence of the people in the forum or from forthcoming rules is nice.

NT

Yep. I also like to throw my ideas out there and have others present their view, add things I may have overlooked or simply point out the flaws. What I was trying to say is probably "Look guys, there's more info out there than the rulebook could possibly provide. Take all the sources you can and then, taking the book as a guide, weave them into your game."
See the discussion on greaves and vambraces? My answer to a player asking this would possibly be "There are both kinds. Those that go around the back and those that don't. The latter provides the same level of protection, but to less areas. And it's cheaper, as well as more readily available. Knights and nobles will have the full stuff, others might choose the lighter and cheaper variety. Same CP cost, same AV value, almost the same coverage. Think about social implications, style and then tell me which your character would like."