Forum changes: Editing of posts has been turned off until further notice.
Started by Ron Edwards, May 09, 2004, 12:50:53 PM
Quote from: Ron EdwardsWhat I'm interested in, and some people tried really hard to stay focused on this on the other thread, is this: for both Mongrel and for Ben's game, what are the gender-based constraints in the character creation process? Most specifically, how does each set of constraints relate to the other aspects of the game: well, poorly, can't tell, or what? (Adding "in play" would be best, but Mongrel has only been played a few times, and I'm not sure about Ben's game.) And finally, how do the two designs differ, and how might either be improved by considering the differences?
Quote from: Ron EdwardsMost specifically, how does each set of constraints relate to the other aspects of the game: well, poorly, can't tell, or what?
Quote from: ValamirNeel is guilty of failing to do this in his post above. He sets about trying to design a specific character archetype that he brought in to Mongrel from the outside, and then criticises the rules for not allowing that archetype to be created.
QuoteAttributes[/b]The six attributes are Size, Spirit, Physique, Beauty, Speed, and Social. They are used primarily as target numbers and resource banks during play.Size + Spirit = 8.If Man is primary, then your Size and Spirit are both 4; if Beast is primary, then Size must begreater than Spirit; if Demon is primary, then Spirit must be greater than Size.Physique + Beauty = 8Choose your character's sex: male or female. If the character is male, then Physique must be higher than Beauty; if the character is female, then Beauty must be higher than Physique. These guidelines may be ignored, but if they are, then the Social attribute (see below) cannot exceed 4.Speed + Social = 8Choose your character's age: young, adult, or old. If the character is young, then Speed must exceed Social; if the character is adult, then Speed and Social may be chosen to any values that sum to 8; if the character is old, then Social must exceed Speed. Note that if you have chosen to ignore the gender guidelines, and if your character is Old, then Social must be taken at 4 and Speed must be dropped to 3 or less. After Attributes are chosen, any of them may be lowered if the player desires. No points are "gained" by doing so.
QuoteArmor lowers the initial Effect of damage. Damage may also be shunted to Beauty, decreasing Beauty temporarily on a 1:1 basis. One point of this decrease in Beauty is permanent.
QuoteOne of the manuscript reviewers hated the Houses with a passion, considering it to be an example of"habit and imitation" just like I criticized in the essay. My only defense, such as it is, is that I think aDune-like noble-house context seems right for the setting and Color, so I went with it.
Quote from: neelkSo, I start the chargen process, and come to the point where I assign attributes. I set her Beauty to 2, because she's a withered and wrinkly old bat, and her Physique to 3. 3 is a little lower than average, but pretty darn good for a hundred-fifty year old woman staying alive through cybernetic organs, black magic, and sheer spite. (This doesn't add up to 8, but that's okay since she's an old woman and not about to win any fencing duels, and the rules permit lowering attributes.) Now, I discover that if a female character's Physique is higher than her Beauty, her max Social attribute is 4. This pretty much craters the plan to make a scarily competent manipulatrix.
QuoteWhat differenciates Mongrel from Eclipse, is that in Mongrel, this gender and age distinction has a very clear, and very informative reason for existance. Despite repeated inquiries, I have yet to see any similarly profound rationale for the differentiation in Eclipse.
QuoteAnd finally, how do the two designs differ, and how might either be improved by considering the differences?
QuoteUp to you. 'Tween you and me, I think taking a "bye" for a while will save you a lot of stress.
Quote from: ValamirI don't really want to argue with you Neel. But the above reference is absolutely the only comment in the manuscript that refers to a book that I could find. It is clear from the context that the games setting is hardly "modeled" on Dune, merely that the noble house structure is somewhat reminiscent of the houses of Dune. The only other reference to source material was with regards to the visual effects and flavor of action being like over the top scifi anime. Doesn't say anything about society. Is there some other reference you're drawing from that I missed?
QuoteSpace travel among the three planets of the system is a commonplace, and the local forms of technology and occultism are hyper-developed. Current conflicts and resource crises have led to harsh, hotly-negotiated trading and living conditions, and society has become analogous to early modern Europe, in which families and organizations jockeyed for position and status in a dangerous, partly-fragmented society.
QuoteIf not, you extrapolating this into a whole range of "source material" that the "setting was modelled on" is actually a perfect example of the sort of bringing-in-stuff-from-the-outside, that I was talking about. I don't see any source material mentioned in the games text that would lead me to assume those archetypes exist...
Quote from: ValamirI'm going to disagree with you quite strenuously there Jonathan.